What are the symptoms of a clogged teabag filter?
I went out for a spin today and everything was fine until I hit a private road and wound it up to over 5k in top. When I slowed down the bike cut out and was a bugger to start, I only got home by turning up the tick over to 1800 revs which stopped it cutting out all the time.
Don't know about the tebag, but I applaud you sir for hitting 5K in top on a "private road". It would be terrible to think that a forum member might accidentally break the law on a public road.
A blocked teabag is normally spotted by a miss-fire and or rough running/iratic tickover. it'll take you 20 mins to get the pump out and check it .
Hopefully it's nothing to serious :cheers:
I wouldn't think it's a blocked filter Mick. If it were, it would show when you need more juice, 5k needs more fuel than 1100 idle. Reckon one of your plugs is shot, needs the extra idle rpm to compensate.
You got iridium in there from memory, yeah? I recall some folk have had issues with them melting pistons - dunno why though.
I'll be interested to see how this pans out.
See how she starts & runs in the morning once everything has cooled right off. Could be a bit carbon'd up? & the wee high speed burst has made it glow hot - causing rough idling.
The reason I joined the old forum in the first place was that the bike ran like shit, didn't tick over very well and died at junctions etc. Cured it with new plugs (iridium) and everything has been okay for over a year, until now but it's a bit different as it feels like fuel starvation which is why I went for the teabag, I will check it out when it's cold and see what happens.
If I remember right, a few people on here have recommended ditching the Iridium plugs and going for standard. Worth a try, it will only cost a few quid to find out.
It's an odd one for sure, I can't understand how it can be starving for fuel at idle yet have enough to rev high.
You haven't had the tank off recently have you? Reason I ask is the fuel hose from the bottom of the tank to the fuel pump can get kinked / squashed occasionally, thus restricting fuel to the pump. (I've done that) But, it affected higher throttle openings, not idle.
Stale fuel?
Quote from: KiwiCol on Tuesday, 27 February 2018, 02:17 AM
It's an odd one for sure, I can't understand how it can be starving for fuel at idle yet have enough to rev high.
You haven't had the tank off recently have you? Reason I ask is the fuel hose from the bottom of the tank to the fuel pump can get kinked / squashed occasionally, thus restricting fuel to the pump. (I've done that) But, it affected higher throttle openings, not idle.
It only happened immediately after the high speed run which is why I asked the question, more fuel sucked into the teabag clogging it up. Haven't had the tank off for over a year.
Spark plugs and fuel have been mentioned. I would also check plug cap, throttle valve sync, and vacuum leak.
Went out on it today and there was no problem, ran fine, no coughs or hiccups.
Very strange but glad it's all ok
:cheers:
Yes, it's a puzzle. Still want to get to the bottom of it though as I don't want it to happen when I am miles from home. I will keep on looking, might try standard plugs first.
Just out of interest - how much fuel was in your tank at the time? If very low, it could be that the symptoms you had were as a result of scavenging, as where the pick up for fuel is towards the middle/front of the tank, under hard acceleration or if going up a steep hill, fuel goes towards the rear of the tank, so if low, can cause scavenging and thus a bit of overheating as the engine runs slightly weak due to slight fuel starvation.
If it was this and your plugs got a little too hot as a result, that could explain why it did what it did then and runs ok now.
Maybe the tank vent was (partially) frozen?
With that vent not working properly, you can create a vacuum in the tank, causing a fuel delivery problem.
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Wednesday, 28 February 2018, 01:35 AM
Just out of interest - how much fuel was in your tank at the time? If very low, it could be that the symptoms you had were as a result of scavenging, as where the pick up for fuel is towards the middle/front of the tank, under hard acceleration or if going up a steep hill, fuel goes towards the rear of the tank, so if low, can cause scavenging and thus a bit of overheating as the engine runs slightly weak due to slight fuel starvation.
If it was this and your plugs got a little too hot as a result, that could explain why it did what it did then and runs ok now.
The fuel pick up is at the rear of the tank but under strong acceleration you could still get fuel starvation on low fuel loads.
It was at idle though Seth. Mick didn't say anything about rough running at higher rpm, just at tick over.
It was but it started after a high speed high revs run so thinking it might have a fuel starvation problem that's now cleared again .
I think both plugs and filters need a check over just to make sure everything is ok .
I'd agree and is what I was alluding to earlier in that I think that possibly fuel starvation when doing the run "cooked" the plugs at bit which left it running rough at tickover afterwards. Now everything has cooled down, things are back to normal. Although if what we are saying is correct, not sure how much longer the plugs may last
Thanks for all the input but the tank was full, hardly ever run the bike will less than half a tank and fill up every time I use it.
Replaced the coils and took it along the same private road and it worked perfectly, no coughing and spluttering at the end so I think that's cured. I think that must have been my original fault a year ago but as I rarely run at high revs it has not been a problem, sorted now.
I think you are so lucky having a handy supply of "private roads" ahem...
On a Sunday morning the group I ride with seem to find many "private roads"...
Well that didn't work out, bike is still doing it so it's out with the pump next to strip and clean it out. I've changed plugs, coils, checked the timing rotor is tight and all connections are clean, I get no fault codes but the bike still runs rough and will not tick over every now and again :furious: :furious: :furious:
Took the pump out and it was spotless, no crud in the tank or filter. Cleaned it anyway and went out today, bike runs like a bag of shite. On an open throttle it pulls well but on a closed or trailing throttle it farts, coughs and tried to die, have to rev it at light just to keep the motor turning, exhaust was all black and sooty when I got home. Has anyone got any ideas on how to fix the bastard, I've changed coils and plugs, cleaned out the pump and checked all sensors, I have no error codes and it's driving me mad (er).
Not the clutch switch playing up is it?
No, I've checked that and the side stand switches.
No probs..It was just a thought :onya:
Hope you get it sorted.
Black soot indicates incomplete combustion to me. I know you changed the sparc plugs but what do they look like now. Signs of overfueling on one - maybe a stuck open injector. Checked the airfilter?
Given what else you have checked I agree with Andre - get your injectors cleaned and checked, not expensive, http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=95.0
Well yesterday I took the bike apart and checked/cleaned everything relavent, disconnected all the plugs/sockets and cleaned all the contacts with contact cleaner and replaced the plugs. When I took the plugs out they were all very badly sooted up as was the exhaust tail pipe which tells me the bike is running very rich confirmed by the economy plumetting to less than 30mpg. Took it out for a test this morning and it was fine until it warmed up and then it started coughing and finally died as I pulled into my drive, quickly checking the tail pipe it was all sooty again. This suggests to me that the bike thinks everything is fine but the ECU thinks there is a need for more fuel which soots up the plugs and causes the coughing as the motor is flooding, full throttle stops this, so I am now looking at the temp sensors or ECU as I get no error codes but the ECU is pooring fuel into the engine. I have ruled out plugs (replaced), coils (replaced) and injectors as all plus are equally sooty. Will keep you posted but any help would be appreiciated.
I picked up some crappy fuel and it made my bike run terrible untill I got the injectors cleaned and serviced now sweet as a sweet thing .
I used the company in the linked thread injector clean.
Good luck hopefully you'll get this sorted asap.
:cheers:
TPS or secondary TPS Mick? They tell the ecu where the throttle is (how far open) and thus how much fuel to fire at it. If one or the other has gone bung, this could well result the in overfueling you've mentioned.
If the ecu thinks the throttle is wide open & firing max fuel at the cyl, when you do open it up it runs correct again because you've got the right fuel / air mix for a while.
Anyway, just a thought, check the TPS (s)
To check you TPS follow the link and read the thread on how to check it.
http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=263.0
Quote from: KiwiCol on Tuesday, 15 May 2018, 03:04 AM
TPS or secondary TPS Mick? They tell the ecu where the throttle is (how far open) and thus how much fuel to fire at it. If one or the other has gone bung, this could well result the in overfueling you've mentioned.
If the ecu thinks the throttle is wide open & firing max fuel at the cyl, when you do open it up it runs correct again because you've got the right fuel / air mix for a while.
Anyway, just a thought, check the TPS (s)
Thanks Col but I've done that and both were in spec although I couldn't find out how to check the STPS actuator.
Quote from: mjgt on Tuesday, 15 May 2018, 02:48 AM
Well yesterday I took the bike apart and checked/cleaned everything relavent, disconnected all the plugs/sockets and cleaned all the contacts with contact cleaner and replaced the plugs. When I took the plugs out they were all very badly sooted up as was the exhaust tail pipe which tells me the bike is running very rich confirmed by the ecoomy plumetting to less than 30mpg. Took it out for a test this morning and it was fine until it warmed up and then it started coughing and finally died as I pulled into my drive, quickly checking the tail pipe it was all sooty again. This suggests to me that the bike thnks everything is fine but the ECU thinks there is a need for more fuel which soots up the plugs and causes the coughing as the motor is flooding, full throttle stops this, so I am now looking at the temp sensors or ECU as I get no error codes but the ECU is pooring fuel into the engine. I have ruled out plugs (replaced), coils (replaced) and injectors as all plus are equally sooty. Will keep you posted but any help would be appreiciated.
Best check your sensors / wiring ( temp + pressure air and oil ) if they are faulty.. the secondary throttle valves could be acting up to..
even if you don't get an error message.
Looks like something is set to a fail safe mode :confused1:
Still got the problem, am borrowing an ECU next week to rule that out/in but I am seriously considering buying another bike so I can do back to back measurements to fix this problem as it's driving me nuts. I'm lucky that this is not my only bike as the sun is out a lot now.
Quote from: mjgt on Sunday, 20 May 2018, 01:44 AM
Still got the problem, am borrowing an ECU next week to rule that out/in but I am seriously considering buying another bike so I can do back to back measurements to fix this problem as it's driving me nuts. I'm lucky that this is not my only bike as the sun is out a lot now.
I am not that far from North Somerset just over the water if you want to use my bike to check values etc :)
@mjgt
Quote from: Notty on Sunday, 20 May 2018, 02:35 AM
Quote from: mjgt on Sunday, 20 May 2018, 01:44 AM
Still got the problem, am borrowing an ECU next week to rule that out/in but I am seriously considering buying another bike so I can do back to back measurements to fix this problem as it's driving me nuts. I'm lucky that this is not my only bike as the sun is out a lot now.
I am not that far from North Somerset just over the water if you want to use my bike to check values etc :)
@mjgt
Thanks very much for the offer Notty but it could take a few days.
Borrowing an ECU option is out as the chipped key will not allow it. Stripped the bike down again yesterday and removed all vacuum hoses and checked them, all fine. Removed both temp sensors (iat & eot) and tested them, both good but the air temp has a range up to 110 degrees C, who the hell is going out on the bike when the air temp is 110 :whatever: Tried to test air pressure sensors (iap & ap) but could not get a change in reading when I tried to change the air pressure by sucking/blowing into it so will investigate these further. After that I will start tracing individual wires from their sensors to the ecu. A new ECU is £1400 plus a recode of the key by a dealer, cant find any second hand yet. I feel like :frustrated:
@mjgt Here is one for 120 € on German ebay-classifieds as part of lock-set (with immobilizer). https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/suzuki-gsx-1400-schlosssatz-ecu-cdi-steuergeraet-schluessel/789968484-306-4578 (https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/suzuki-gsx-1400-schlosssatz-ecu-cdi-steuergeraet-schluessel/789968484-306-4578)
"Here the translation of the ad's text: Complete lock set with 2 keys. The controller is needed on newer models where the immobilizer is already present.
Shipping and paypal possible"
Assume he hasn't found a buyer yet due to a stupid engraving on the fuel cap.
If you need help in communicating with him I'll be happy to assist.
Edit: just saw that he also has air pressure sensors (iap & ap) for 5€ (both together as it looks to me) https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/suzuki-gsx-1400-luftsensor-luftdrucksensor-sensor-airbox/779773486-306-4578 (https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/suzuki-gsx-1400-luftsensor-luftdrucksensor-sensor-airbox/779773486-306-4578)
Thanks Andre, I am going to test the sensors today while connected to the bike to see what their o/p voltage is as the book does not give a resistance reading. If I need them I will send you a PM.
Last 100 kms my 14 run like sh$t! Cleaned tea bag and now it runs like a charm :smitten: cleaned it just 3000km ago :whatever:. Too early to get clogged :facepalm:
Bloody hell! I wonder why it was running like s$$t then?
Where ya been filling up? a farmers paddock?
Quote from: KiwiCol on Wednesday, 06 June 2018, 05:03 AM
Bloody hell! I wonder why it was running like s$$t then?
Where ya been filling up? a farmers paddock?
Don't know what to say....just 3000kms ago it was like new! Also, tank was clean and now is rusted :frustrated:
Next winter my plan is to paint fuel tank but first I will have to protect it from rust from inside.
It might be worth adding an inline filter to the fuel pump feed line at least you'll see any crud building up before it gets to the teabag filter.
:cheers:
OMG !i am not sure an in line filter would stop that !! what fuel are you using ? rusty cow shit by the look of it !! :bugga:
It probably wouldn't stop it but it will give an early warning and easier to clean rather than having to remove the fuel pump as much to clean the tea bag as much or as often untill the problem can be fixed to stop it happening in the first place.
:cheers:
I use 95 octane fuel. I fill it at the same fuel station where I fill my car with no problems for last 10 years. I started thread about exhaust diameter and torque because I thought my 14 lost some torque when swithed to 4-1 exhaust, now I think this shit in fuel tank is reason for loosing power. Haven't tried it yet with clean tea bag but I am pretty sure it got its torque back! Next project is to fit in line fuel filter. :stir:
Might also be worth running some injector cleaner through once you replenish the tank with a fresh filter and fuel, as no doubt some crud could - or might - have got by and into the injector system. Injector cleaner should clear that - if there is any (so just a precautionary action).
The main problem though seems to be rust in the tank, so as you say that needs fixing first before anything.
The products from Frost in the UK are very good at fuel tank repair/ sealing against rust
https://www.frost.co.uk/auto-maintenance/automotive-tanks-products/fuel-tank-repair.html
Might be worth sealing your fuel tank as well as it might be badly rusted up inside.
have you had a look inside tank with pump out, must be some serious bad stuff in there. how to fix, im not sure. maybe swill some rust converter in there. i dont really know. my mates 14 rusted tank out , it was stuffed. he had always used good fuel. just started leaking, new tank required. looks like you need to do something.
I've not got this issue, but if I did, I'd be sealing the tank. Surely there must be some epoxy 2 pack stuff that'd do the job properly? Set hard as nails, impervious to everything and doesn't breakdown under 100 years? & only cost £3.56 a litre. If not, we should make some, and charge £4.00 a litre.
Yes, I looked inside but didn't take picture. It's only rusted on the top around fuel cap (cca 20 cm in diameter). The rest is in good shape with no rust at all. Six months ago the whole tank had no rust at all, so I think it is still in good shape, just surface on the top is rusted. I also used syringe with clear hose to suck everything from it and there was about 1 cm of water. I noticed that vent hose was bent and clogged (obviously my mistake from last filter cleaning) and I can remember that my bike spent one night out in the rain (moto party...me drunk), so that time water could come into tank and maybe that is the reason for rust and so much shit on tea bag. :facepalm:
My bike lived outside for years & gets used in all weathers, my tank is still clean inside.
It was rusty under the fuel cap, but only under where that sits. I took it off int 2016, treated the rust & painted it as part of a general tidy up to celebrate 100k.
Quote from: Hooli on Wednesday, 06 June 2018, 07:51 PM
My bike lived outside for years & gets used in all weathers, my tank is still clean inside.
Try to wash a bike or leave it in rain with blocked vent pipe for a while....I am pretty sure that you'll have water in tank. Obviously my mistake :embarrassed:
I had a few fuel problems a few years ago after filling up at a garage in Italy that must have had dirty tank.once cleaned all was good again .
Quote from: mlivkovich on Wednesday, 06 June 2018, 08:14 PM
Quote from: Hooli on Wednesday, 06 June 2018, 07:51 PM
My bike lived outside for years & gets used in all weathers, my tank is still clean inside.
Try to wash a bike or leave it in rain with blocked vent pipe for a while....I am pretty sure that you'll have water in tank. Obviously my mistake :embarrassed:
Haha self-inflicted then!
Just can't believe that amount of crap in such short time.
Thanks for the reminder
@mlivkovich ! Had my tank turned 180 to sync the TB and put new vaccum hoses on. Had to pull the drain up a little to be able to make the turn. Forgot to pull it down and check for kinks.
I will never forget to check vent hose again!!! :furious: just 30 sec job to put hand under bike and pull hose down!
Well after a lot of pissing about and checking this that and the other I think I have isolated it to the IAP sensor, swapped it with the IAT sensor and the fault changed bike runs a lot better and i'm just hoping that replacing the IAP (which Andre is very kindly sending me from Germany) it seems to have gone but yesterday I had a total failure miles from home. RAC collected me and brought me home adding 5.5 hours to my ride out :furious: but I tracked that down to a high pressure bypass valve falling out of the fuel pump, a new wire cage will prevent that in the future. Sensor is on it's way and I hope that will end the matter.
Thanks for your help Andre, you're a gent :hat: