As you may know I acquired a puncture in the rear tyre the other day..
Whilst my wheel was out I thought "why not remove the swing arm and re grease its bearings"
It all went to plan and I re greased the bearings.. One side was almost dry with a hint of rust..
Anyway I cleaned the swing arm of its 13 years of crud and noticed this . . . .
I assume its not "normal" ?
Its on the right side (Disc side)
You can't leave it like that!
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
The suspense is killing me :whatever:
:popcorn:
Simon !!! what did you find? I get security error message using my iMac :)
Let me have a guess, a miniaturised solar battery charger that also works on cloudy days? Installed by the P.O. Am I close? :stir: :lol:
Col. :rofl2:
No...
What looks like a 3" (7.5 cm) crack in the casting where the bearing fits..
As they say in Yorkshire.. "It'll be reet".
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Sunday, 25 February 2018, 06:25 PM
No...
What looks like a 3" (7.5 cm) crack in the casting where the bearing fits..
As they say in Yorkshire.. "It'll be reet".
:sad:
This happened to a mate on a GSXR1100.
He was stripping his bike down and found a 3-4 inch hairline crack where swingarm pivot.
He did wonder why it wasn't handling so good previously... :whistling:
:thumbs_down:
I hope it's weldable
Quote from: lloydjames on Monday, 26 February 2018, 03:01 AM
:thumbs_down:
I hope it's weldable
Its funny you say that..
My friend specializes in Alloy welding..
He reckons it will be stronger than original.
I suppose its similar to a well healed broken bone being stronger than original due to the thicker band of bone around the original break..
When GSXBarmy posts up the photos for me you will see that in my opinion the wall of the alloy where the bearings go don't look over thick to me!!
Watch this space for the photos..
So here's the photo's that Simon sent to me - never seen anything like this on the shaft before...I think if anyone has a spare swingarm in good condition the don't require Simon may be interested. Whether its weldable or not I don't know, I think a specialist alloy welder's opinion is necessary for that
Wow thank you Dave for that...
On the big screen it looks more serious than on my phone..
At the moment it has a jubilee clip bracing it.. :grin:
It needs welding Simon as a minimum, as I think that crack can only get worse. Certainly I'd show the pictures to your welder buddy to get his opinion, if only to find out what can be done to stop it spreading further. Years back one used to drill a small hole at the end of the crack to help stop it, whether that would work I don't know, it needs a specialist view.
Think I'd put an ad in the wanted section.....
Yeah, welding is OK if it's a proper skilled welder who knows what he is doing. Or a replacement swing arm, fine. But you couldn't pay me enough to ride that with a jubilee clip holding it together.
Good job you decided to grease the bearings or who knows how bad that would have got !! :bugga:
That needs welding then reaming back to proper size .
Even then I'd be more inclined to get a replacement as if the metal is that stressed/weakened it can't be trusted.
:cry2:
I'm no welder but almost anything can be repaired these days.
I can imagine any weld would need to be inside and outside the bore of the bearing recess. If it only needs to be on the outside then the inside face is surely going to be affected in some way as bearing seats are very high tolerance. As such, the inside bore will need re-milled to exact size in order to provide a perfect interference fit for the bearing. After this, you will want to restore the surface finish. All of this isn't going to come cheap. I'm guessing the £150 people are asking on Ebay for a swingarm will be worth the peace of mind and may work out cheaper.
I would ask why the crack happened. It's not the first time I have read about this happen on the 14. And so far it's been on the right side. IMO (not everyone agrees) it is because no attention was given to the issue in the attached screenshot.
I would suggest you might be right Andre.
This picture needs added to the download section i think (unless its already there :smoke:)
It is already in the download section - in the Service Manual.
Well spotted Andre. I'll add a separate "sticky" so it doesn't get lost :onya:
In fact I've just done it http://gsx1400owners.org/forum_test/index.php?topic=2420.msg29206#msg29206
Strange how the Thrust Shim isn't identified on Robinsonsfoundry fiche :confused1:
Are there any other parts catalogues on the interweb?
Sorry, kinda knew this sort of question would come up. Just didn't feel like to preemptively go through the work to explain in previous post :evil:
Robinsons fiche (and all others as well? ) shows the Thrust Shim (Cap) on the wrong (left) side and it calls it PIVOT CAP (#9 on their fiche). The Suzuki part number for the Thrust Shim is 61264-42F00
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum_test/gallery/0/736-260218110157.png)
Compare this to the Service Manual's graph and you see that it does not show that item at all. Doesn't need to as it is not a parts fiche.
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum_test/gallery/0/736-260218105955.png)
That's not a very good picture of it if it is either. When I removed my swingarm to have it powdercoated, it looked nothing like that.
Mine looked like a large thin washer with cupped outer edge not too dissimilar in shape to the bearing dust seal (item 6), only made completely of metal.
I had to remove mine as the gap had reduced as a result of powdercoating the frame and swingarm. This gap is something i'm now conscious I have to check whenever I service the bike. Im not looking forward to ever having to refit it if the powdercoating wears down :sad:
All this scary stuff about shims or no shims & check 1 mm gap. Bloody hell, I was getting quite confident about pulling the swing arm off & re-greasing & putting it back on, now there's gaps to check & the possibility of cracking the swingarm if you do it wrong, think I'll leave the bloody thing alone till it 'seizes up', then I'll have a crack at it.
When I removed the swing arm I noticed the following..
1. When removing the rubber chain guard there was a thin shim type of washer underneath it.. (Number 5).
2. I remember the pivot cap (Number 9) WAS installed because it fell of the pivot shaft locating stub on the RIGHT side of the frame when I was having an interesting time trying to replace the arm. I wouldn't have noticed it was there if it hadn't fallen off once.. The grease held it in place.
So in my case the "shim" is definitely in place !
I didn't measure if it needed it or not but the fact it was already there and that I managed to replace the swing arm (eventually) would say it was needed.
Does what I am surmising make any sense?
As I said initially..
Leave your swing arm alone because sometimes ignorance is bliss. :grin:
On a positive note, I will be bloody fast at swing arm removal next Saturday !!
P.S I ended up using a car jack under it to replace it because when trying to locate the arm the pivot cap dust seal (Number 6) kept falling off.
The jack held the arm at the right elevation then I could push then tap home gently with a rubber mallet.
Being an OCD Geek Putts I actually photographed underneath my bike with the arm removed.
You can see the "Thrust Shim" (Number 9) is in place on the right side of the bike !
Agree Col.
Doesn't affect me now I don't have a 14, but if I had mine and others' swing arms out once, I must have had them out and replaced them quite a few times for cleaning, polishing and whatever and never checked the thrust washer (I just put it all back as it came out) so not sure if we are overthinking this. I think if you put it all back as it came out then you should be good as IMO the shimming should only need checking and perhaps updating on a high mileage 14, it should not affect the lower mileage ones.
From thinking back across the old org, I can't recall seeing a split on the shaft like Simon has on his swingarm. I recall splits around the rear axle area where at times bobbins had been fitted too close to welds or whatever, but nothing like the pictures above. And over the years the two orgs have run, there must have been quite a few swing arms taken out and replaced. In my opinion, I think Simon's 14 was just unlucky, maybe the back had had a knock or something before he got his machine, maybe it was a duff bit of metal, maybe the bolt was overtightened who knows. But was it the lack of (or becuase he had) a shim in there? Not sure.
Lets be honest, we've all been around 14's for a while and never noticed this issue. That's not to say it wasn't there, but its not exactly common either. For me, being a low miles (let's say sub 50k miles bike) if I had mine, I'd still take it out, clean it and put it back how it all came out and not worry about it.
Just my thoughts and I'm not one to skimp on anything!!!
This is exactly same place mate who owns a GSXR1100 cracked.
His was a 55K 1991 model though.
QuoteTony White Thats the crack at the bearing housing on the forward face. I stop drilled it, dressed and had it welded, but they did a poor job and the weld sagged into the bearing machined face. They also spotted that the vertical weld on the box section (partially under the chain rub strip) was slso cracked. Gave up on repairing it snd sourced another.
Attached pick below belongs to this post.
Here a response to that post:
QuoteTony Jones I've seen the swingarm issue before. Both on another 14 and a couple of Busa's. Its always worth checking any big Suzuki arm when the bikes in bits.
Simon and the two Tonys above are just 3 of the cases where these cracks have developed. I could dig out a few more that I have read about :)
Is the axial play the cause? Unlikely, since Simon had the shim in there. Regardless, the engineers at Suzuki found it important enough to include it in the Service Manual. If you check for it or not is your decision. It certainly is no big deal to check while you have access to it.
Si Its on its way mate -
@Speedy1959 :onya: :onya:
Brilliant Del..
Thank you very much for your excellent service.
I enjoyed the phone chat the other evening...
For the record my bike has done 28,000 miles and is a 2005 model
This may be a daft idea but is there any reason I cant put a jubilee clip around the replacement swing arm to act as support (assuming there is a weakness.
I have put a heavy duty jubilee clip around my cracked one coos I was going out on a ride last Sunday and didn't want a rear wheel falling off to spoil my day.
I would love to know how long the crack has been there.. As I already mentioned, I would not have found it if I hadn't removed it to grease the bearings and then given it a bloody good clean. It would be difficult to spot but maybe not impossible) with the arm in situ as the crack faces the rear of the engine.
I wouldn't put anything on the replacement swingarm just check it tho I'm sure del already has and fit it with loads if grease to keep any future corrosion out and you'll be just fine .
In fact adding a clamp could actually damage it in a different way .
:cheers:
Thank you Seth.
I respect your views and so I shall leave as is..
I have some high quality grease to whop (technical term) in the bearings and thoroughly work in.
This is the stuff I bought..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/332494771670?chn=ps&adgroupid=58814348784&rlsatarget=pla-411722230710&abcId=1133916&adtype=pla&merchantid=101451072&poi=&googleloc=9046573&device=c&campaignid=1057745162&crdt=0
Perfect
Remember to make sure you get plenty in side the swing arm as well as the bearings you can't put to much in it .
In the past it would have had a grease nipple .I don't think it's worth adding any .
Just loads of grease and your sorted.