Is it ok to remove the battery for a few months ?
Just asking because I heard on some cars the ECU can go down aswell and has to be re-booted by main agents at a very high cost.
Bike has been stood for a few months in my garage in below zero tempratures and would not start yesterday. Put it on charge for 20 minutes and it started fine. Wondering whether to remove battery and store it in a warm dry bedroom lol.
Thanks in advance
Gary
yes all will be fine if you take the battery off .
i take the batteries of the 3 bikes and switch them around the optimate weekly.
i have done this for many winters.
the only thing you'll have to do when you refit the battery is to reset the clock to yhr correct time.
:cheers:
Thanks Seth.
I usually start it once a week over the winter cuz I don't use it but haven't bothered the last . . . err must be 3 months.
unless your running the bike till its properly hot then just giving it a start/run once a week will actually do more harm than good as it leaves condensation behind in the engine/exhaust if not run long enough .
my batteries are 2x12 and 1x13 years old and i do the same every year with the batteries .
they wont last forever but doing ok so far.
I dont sit batteries on concrete. Always on a piece of wood on the ground.
Not sure why, was just told that years ago.
Maybe someone could tell me why ?
the concrete extra cools the battery as its a (massive heat synk) changing the chemicals inside so they deteriorate quicker making them less able to hold a charge .
the very worst thing for a battery is it to get frosted or frozen that'll ruin it mega fast.
placing off the ground and on wood insulates the battery helping keep it in a better condition longer .
:cheers:
Thank you Seth :hat:
Quote from: taximan on Tuesday, 13 February 2018, 05:06 AM
Just asking because I heard on some cars the ECU can go down aswell and has to be re-booted by main agents at a very high cost.
Modern car ECUs are very complex and I believe they can adapt their settings dynamically for things like fuel quality, engine wear and so on as time goes on. This is much more functionality than you would find in our ECUs, which are pretty simple by comparison.
Having said that, I can't see any reason why they would be unbootable after a certain period without power. If that's the case, it's either poor design or a malicious feature to make money for dealers.
Either way it's not going to be good news for future barn finds...
sorry some of the rubbish i know is mad
its from working as a wheelchair engineer we had a day course in batteries not long ago as some places kept sending back faulty ones under warranty but it turned out it was because they were sutting on concrete floors and others outdoors in the winter .
ours sit on pallets and the floor underneath contains all the heating pipes for the hospital so never a problem.
on top tip tho if you have a torch and its goes dim remover the batteries and put them in your trouser pockets with your hands give them 5 mins and replace in the tourch. they'll be bright and last a little longer due to being warm.
:cheers:
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Tuesday, 13 February 2018, 07:33 AM
I dont sit batteries on concrete. Always on a piece of wood on the ground.
Not sure why, was just told that years ago.
Maybe someone could tell me why ?
Its not just batteries. You should never leave your bike tyres standing on concrete in one place for an extended period of time as it can affect the rubber (can cause the rubber to deteriorate). If parking your bike up for winter, put it up on its mainstand with a bit of old carpet under the front wheel. If only a side stand, then a bit of carpet under both wheels.
I remove battery every winter, store in cupboard under stairs & charge once a month. Never had any problems. I've always thought that cold temps are major issues for batteries.
Couple of points on batterys, storage & holding a charge.
Which is worse for a battery, hot weather or cold weather?
Hot weather. While most of us have grown up thinking that cold weather is the worst weather for a battery, the fact is that your vehicle is simply harder to start on very cold days. This is primarily due to the thickening of the motor oil during extreme cold. Heat actually damages the battery causing increased grid corrosion and water loss. Studies indicate that the average battery lasts nearly twice as long in a cold weather climate vs. a hot weather climate.
Will a battery rapidly self-discharge if stored on concrete?
No, placing a battery on concrete will not cause it to discharge any faster than any other surface. All lead-acid batteries will naturally self-discharge which can result in loss of capacity from sulfation. Heat speeds up this self-discharge, so that is why it in not a good idea to store batteries in a hot garage or warehouse. The rate of self-discharge is most influenced by the temperature of the battery's electrolyte and the chemistry of the plates. This self-discharge is often mistaken for concrete floor causing the battery to drain. Some experts believe that storing car or deep cycle batteries on a colder concrete floor might actually slow down the self-discharge (leakage) rate because the floor acts as a heat sink and cools the battery.
The above is taken from Continental Batteries Web Page of FAQ's.
The cold v hot storage is even born out above by Seth, He's in a cold climate & he's had 12 - 13 years out of his batteries. Yes, he might be moving them inside over winter, but it's still just above freezing up there anyway . . . :stir:
Winter?
I was astounded that I left my battery in my bike for 6 months - not ridden, not started, not charged.
Didn't go flat - was able to start bike no real dramas.
We should run a poll (totally unscientific) to see if the colder climate thing stacks up or not.
Like how long have you had out of your battery & put it against the average temp for the location. Aussie would fare worst & Scotland would be right up there - maybe Norway & Russia would be tops?
A couple more bits of info
Can I store a battery indefinitely?
No, a battery will self-discharge slowly over time. Allowing a battery to sit in a discharged state will ultimately lead to severe positive grid corrosion and battery failure. An un-used battery should never be allowed to sit over 6 months without a recharge.
Can a battery freeze?
Yes, if it is in a state of discharge. As the state of charge in a battery decreases, the electrolyte becomes more like water and the freezing temperature increases. It is very important to make sure your battery stays fully charged in extreme cold weather. If a battery freezes, it can damage the plates and container leading to a potential explosion.
all courtesy of WWW.
How to maintain a Motorcycle battery (a bit different from car batteries)
https://motorbikewriter.com/maintain-bike-battery-properly/
How's it different? He's talking a 2 - 3 year lifespan, but properly maintained, that can be much longer. He also says hot is worse for a battery than cold.
I can see how a smaller (bike) battery left on a freezing floor (northern climate) for a winter, can have adverse effects on it, as your winters are much colder than ours & a bike battery being smaller would 'chill' more than say a car size one, although, eventually they'd end up the same temp.
An interesting thing I've noted on any of the battery sites is that hot & vibration is worse for the longevity of the battery than cold. Now where is it again the batteries are mounted in cars?? Right next to the engine mostly. How's that work?? Dunno, but it does.
Batteries, part of my everyday job. i know most answers. too much to write on here. my advice, always keep on charger when not in use. heat, vibration, cold are all battery killers. longest life batt ive ever seen, 26 yrs in the boot of a 1988 mercedes. battery best friend is a modern day smart charger, lots of diff. brands.most fit the bill.
Sound advice Grog.
Mine is hooked up to an Optimate when not being ridden for a few days. My Bandit Yuasa battery lasted 13 years!
The first year I moved over to Wales and had no power in the shed through the Winter.. The battery died because it wasn't hooked up.
Quote from: grog on Tuesday, 13 February 2018, 07:14 PM
Batteries, part of my everyday job. i know most answers. too much to write on here. my advice, always keep on charger when not in use. heat, vibration, cold are all battery killers. longest life batt ive ever seen, 26 yrs in the boot of a 1988 mercedes. battery best friend is a modern day smart charger, lots of diff. brands.most fit the bill.
Don't forget deep discharging when talking about battery killers.
T24, spot on. it wrecks them. voids wrty on mine.
I think the battery on my 2000 speed triple is on it's way out, wouldn't start the bike yesterday. Put it on charge and got 2 green lights so I will leave it a couple of days and try it again. If it fails to start the bike I've a good mind writing to Triumph about it :lol:
Quote from: mjgt on Tuesday, 13 February 2018, 08:54 PM
I think the battery on my 2000 speed triple is on it's way out, wouldn't start the bike yesterday. Put it on charge and got 2 green lights so I will leave it a couple of days and try it again. If it fails to start the bike I've a good mind writing to Triumph about it :lol:
There's a section for Funnies on here :happy1: :whistling:
Ive had the same battery on the 14 since new in 03 and only put a new one on in 2016, only once did I take it off for one winter with no problems when refitted,the rest of the years it has been on Optimate continuously until started to use the 14 regularly. The battery is still in good nick and used in the garage for things like topping up tyre pressures, small portable drill etc.
Gentlemen, thanks for all the info.
I have removed the battery, put it in a cardboard box and insulated it with some rags. I will store in a aired/warm carpeted room and charge it every couple of weeks.
Does the missus mind it being in the airing cupboard ?
I dont wish to start a war nor annoy anyone but...
My last 9 bikes have all lived outside under a cover on my patio..
None of them have ever had a battery mate as I cannot get power to my bike (except via a long extension lead).
And yet not once have I ever had an issue starting my bike.
Both this GSX and a previous Honda CB1300 were left for almost a month without starting due to crappy weather..
Yet both started instantly at the touch of the starter button.
The common denominator as confirmed by 2 guys I know in the RAC and the AA is the fact I refuse to fit an after market alarm system and so my battery drain is near enough zilch!!
Anyone living in the UK will know we have had some pretty cold weather over the past 3 weeks or so...
And yet my bike starts instantly as though it was running a few hours ago..
So for me there is no mystery about battery reliability..
The mystery to me is why bother to complicate your bike with an alarm system..
On the subject of the 2 guys in the RAC and the AA.. They both confirmed that third party alarms cause them more brake down call outs on bikes than anything else.
Ok guys some extremely interesting facts and knowledge on batteries. So To add another dimension to the "fact finding mission" on batteries. I was thinking about getting a lithium battery. After doing the proverbial internet search on the pros and cons ... not too many cons it seems. Does anyone use them or know of anyone that use them. Will be interested in what you guys think. :notworthy:
Lithium battery - Suzuki dealership guy said he wouldn't use them unless I wanted to save weight. Recommended I loose a few pounds. :salute:
Alarm system - Something drawing power off your bike's battery - don't be surprised when it runs empty. Each additional electrical device adds complexity and potential failures. I have a couple disc locks, one with alarm (which has its own battery).
Motorcycle generators are usually not designed with much extra capacity. Don't know about the 14 but doubt it has much reserve capacity. I like to have my bike running as smooth as it can. No added devices for me (not keen of them anyway).
Battery life span is not much of an issue to me. But the EFI needs a fully charged battery to run optimally. And that is the point where I am pro intelligent charger (even though I could buy a couple of batteries for the price of a such a charger).
Quote from: Doc_Rossi46 on Wednesday, 14 February 2018, 07:19 AM
Ok guys some extremely interesting facts and knowledge on batteries. So To add another dimension to the "fact finding mission" on batteries. I was thinking about getting a lithium battery. After doing the proverbial internet search on the pros and cons ... not too many cons it seems. Does anyone use them or know of anyone that use them. Will be interested in what you guys think. :notworthy:
They don't like the cold.
Quote from: mjgt link=topic=2349.msg28285#msg28285 date=1518587846
They don't like the cold.
/quote]
Quote from: Andre on Wednesday, 14 February 2018, 08:08 AM
Lithium battery - Suzuki dealership guy said he wouldn't use them unless I wanted to save weight. Recommended I loose a few pounds. :salute:
Thank you for wisdom :onya: I think you are right and I will stick to the good old fashioned ones :)
Not my wisdom but from the dealership guy who could have kept his mouth shut. I was just there to order rear brake pistons and seals (original cheaper than after market) and asked him his opinions regarding some stuff. His opinions are his but I have the feel that he doesn't bullshit me.
Quote from: Andre on Thursday, 15 February 2018, 07:17 AM
Not my wisdom but from the dealership guy who could have kept his mouth shut. I was just there to order rear brake pistons and seals (original cheaper than after market) and asked him his opinions regarding some stuff. His opinions are his but I have the feel that he doesn't bullshit me.
I accept that it is not entirely your wisdom Andre. But your many years of motorcycling and experience of dealing with dealerships etc. have brought you to the conclusion that the guy is not bullshitting you. That my friend is wisdom :salute: The main reason for joining this forum was because I have little knowledge of the mechanics. My only experience of motorcycling is. I ride my bike and try to look like I know what I'm doing :smile2: So any tips or any advice from all forum members will be greatly appreciated by me :notworthy:
Thank you Doc. Learning through the experience and knowledge from others is smart. Plenty of life experience as well as 14/bike specific experience and knowledge that drives this forum. And the lads are a friendly bunch.
All I can say is - "You poor buggers" - I get to start my bike almost every day AND ride it. :stir: :stir:
I have to buy a new battery after this winter. At the moment I think I'll buy Motobatt 12V 16Ah MBYZ16H, 240 A battery.
Does anybody have experiences of those AGM batteries?
I think Grog does, think he sells them at his work.
@grog
When i replace any if the batteries on our 14's i will buy a replacement yuasa same as standard .
They lasted 13years plus so far so same again for me.
:cheers:
My idea was to get maximum capacity and starting current (amps) especially in cold weather, due to my extra electricity.
Better ideas? There is no room for bigger size battery under my seat.
And Seth is correct, Yuasa is a good battery.
I reckon a well charged battery in good condition will be all you'll need T24, however, if you'd like more CCA capability, Here's an idea for you, you could always hook up some good size cables from the battery terminals going to an Anderson plug mounted in an inconspicuous place, then you have the ability to link in parallel another battery with as many CCA's on tap as you wish.
Once the bike is started & warmed up, the bikes battery will handle starts. You'd only use this mod for real cold starts with a hard to start engine.
t24, i have motobatt in mine, 2 yrs and working fine. original are amazing, mine lasted 9 yrs. anderson plug idea is brilliant, what i used on my old jump packs. my new jump pack is also unreal. i leave it on charge in ute constantly, use 240v inverter. can start a v8 diesel landcruiser, one of the hardest to boost start. very light. using for 9 mths now, around 1000 starts. my job. https://www.ebay.com.au/i/182854961673?chn=ps
Didn't someone (maybe
@Blubber) put in thicker wires to starter for better starts?
I was advised to upgrade the wires from the battery to the frame, starter solenoid and to the starter motor.
This was due to my 1700cc plans ;)
People with 1550 kits benefitted from this upgrade :onya:
All in due time.
I had a problem with the frame earth to the battery on my b/w k6 when i tired to start the bike it tried to earth via the gear selector wires burning them out.
A rewire of the earths and a new replacement earth lead (frame/engine to battery ) no more problems.
:onya:
I added an extra grounding wire from battery to engine in same time when I made extra groundings to my ECU.
Final reason to my cold and wet weather ECU problems was oxidized contact surfaces in ECU grounding, but I also got more starting power with thicker wires.
Not sure if this battery is big enough for the bike.
Theres no volts amps or any marking on it, Im just going by measurements across the top ie 145mm x 90mm. There is room for a bigger one in its holder ??
Dimensions of a couple replacement batteries that are listed for the 14.
L x W x H (mm) 151x87x145 or 152x87x146
Quote from: taximan on Friday, 16 February 2018, 04:13 AM
Theres no volts amps or any marking on it
That would be a very good reason not to use it.
My bike is a 2005 and I am pretty sure my bike has its original battery (Yuasa).
When weekend comes (If its not peeing down...And I remember) I shall record the sound of the start up on my bike which will be its first start up for 25 days.
Remember my bike has NO battery charging of any sort and lives outside under a cover...
Its starts in seconds and so I doubt very much that the ECU is complaining about low voltages!
We shall see.... Just watch it not start now I have pre boasted about how good she is !!!
Speedy, youre very lucky. what youre doing is the perfect way to kill a battery. discharged in cold conditions. buy yourself a smart charger, battery will appreciate it.
Then it appears I have been "lucky" for the past 9 bikes I have owned.
In fact when I originally had bikes I didnt even use a cover and they lived outside..
Yet I never had battery problems..
Best hope my "luck" continues.
As I said in another post, power to my bike is not an option without resorting to an extension cable.
Rain isnt good where extension cables are concerned.
Thinking positive goes a long way :salute:
Would your battery last longer being taken into the warm and put on a smart charger? Probably.
Will the ECU complain if your battery is only charged say 50%? Nope. Doesn't mean things run optimally. Will you notice? Probably not.
Without taking any care battery will usually last 5 years. If you are lucky a few years more. For the cost of an average battery: who cares? Most people don't and do just fine. If it dies a call to the road service and you are on your way again.
I care but don't have a charger and the battery is sitting together with the bike for 6 weeks in the cold. Will it start when I push the button? Positive thinking says yes. Positive thinking also says that I will have plenty left in the budget to buy a smart charger this year. That makes me happy. If the battery dies before then, I am going to be more happy because I can buy a new battery with more amps. Hell, I may buy a new battery even if the old one is still alive :happy1:
Sorry, dont understand at all. A good charger is less than $150. I have 3 vehicles, use it all the time. Leaving it to luck,your choice i guess. Hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is another choice. More luck i also guess.
My perspective... for what its worth.... its a no brainer. My bike also sits outside under a cover and does not get used for the winter... Battery is always connected to a trickle charger. Don't want the hassle of looking forward to a first run after winter layup and then find I cant go because the battery is gubbed! I also use an extension... designed for external use with relevant protection from the elements. Done it this way for 4 years now with no issues at all.
hey...each to their own tho :cheers:
I'm sure there is no need for anything to get personal with all this battery chat .
I have an optimate so i use it .
before i had one the bikes sat all winter (november-march with 2 weekend runs in February most years) with no problems thats just how it was .
Now the batteries are getting on i suspect do they benefit from the optimate use.
I've used a motobatt batteries in the past (on the bking) with no problems but also heard lots of stories about them not lasting very long.
As for lithium batteries i don't know much other than they are very light and very powerful for starting and if they ever run flat they are ruined .
My only other experience with betteries is with wheelchair batteries as I've been a wheelchair engineer the last 21 years so have passed on my experience and training knowledge earlier in the thread.
As already said each to thier own and hopefully all is good when folk start using thier bikes again.
:cheers: