2 yrs ago fitted angels to my bike. was amazed how much better than michys id always used. 1000ks ago changed front one. rear still totally good at 20 th ks. new tyre is way different to one it replaced. pirelli mustve changed something in its make up. never been mentioned. it doesnt turn in quite as quickly as previous, not a problem. it is a much softer ride, sticks to the road like glue, just feels much nicer. straight line is much better, old tyre was good, this is superior. a much nicer ride. just thought id update my experience with an amazing tyre.
Cheers for that info Grog! I need to change my rear tyre before the 'season' kicks off again and heard a lot of good stuff about the GT's. 20Thousand K on a rear tyre and its still good?? Bloody hell mate....are you pushing the bike around? :happy1: Best Ive had is around 10k... and no Im not a hooligan :whistling:
i get around 12-15k from a set of angel gt's rear wears quicker than the front .
still change as a pair tho.
:cheers:
Ive always liked pirelli tyres or dunlop's dont know why realy i just seem to get on better with them than others on my road bikes .
Im still using PR4's and getting 12-15k also.
Cannot remember his handle but a fella was looking at Metzlers as they were on Superbike School bikes. Anyone on Metzlers?
Sorry to crash your thread Grog :cheers:
Definitely a fantastic tyre Grog, but how the hell you have 20k on the rear and it's still good is unbelievable.
I'm no hooligan either & mine lasted 11k till they looked like this & both needed changing 2 weeks ago.
Seth, not sure why lasting so long. thats with 2 up riding and yes it gets a rev quite often. front wore out way before rear. im precious on pressure, 36/38. michys both were rooted at 15ks. my only answer is because shocks n forks were re done. no idea really, just reporting results. ill keep usinh them for sure. best bike tyre ive ever had. maybe the most expensive.but not in the long run.
Just scrubbed in Sweaty. Burt Munro would just put some boot polish on that....good for another couple of thousand k's
stuffed iff i know Sweaty, feel like im cheating. i am old, maybe i forgot the set i put on in between. no mate, i didnt. my trusty exercise book beside me says exactly 19200, yeah i did exagerate a bit.
Well keep it up Grog, fantastic results & you are definitely getting your money's worth :cheers:
Why do they last so long? Because they aren't touching the road as they are Angels in the Sky.
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Tuesday, 23 January 2018, 08:31 PM
Cannot remember his handle but a fella was looking at Metzlers as they were on Superbike School bikes. Anyone on Metzlers?:
@Kiwifruit Metzeler and Pirelli are under the same company roof.
I ride Metzeler Z8 and like their handling very much! The next rear will be a Z8 as well. The next set I might change to the Continental Road Attack 3. Lots of people are very pleased with them. They report tons of grip and longevity. Will see if that's true for the 14.
Won't try the newer one from Metzeler (Roadtec 01) as the front tire is very noisy (as frequently reported)
Cheers Andre :onya:
yes i run metzlers on my tiger damn good tyre although there not full road tyres being Turances there still very good handling tyres !
Metzeler has a long history developing and making tires. Got their 1st tire patent in 1892! 10 years before that, they developed new methods for rubber processing.
All their tires have elephants. Erasing them is my goal. :boogie:
pirelli and metzeler tyres are made in the same factorues on the same production lines
:cheers:
Metzler's are good - but I prefer Michelin in all honesty.
Looking to buy new tyres soon and after some research on here decided on Pirelli Angel
Went into local bike shop last week for a quote on rear tyre. He phoned the agent for a price on Pirelli Angel GT's. Agent said why the GT, they are £160 and the ST is only £106. He said only difference is the tread mark.
the ST's are good tyres but the GT's are better in many ways but mostly in wet grip and milages they give.
I get about 35%more miles out of a set of GT's.
:cheers:
Cheers Seth, I will go for the GT's then.
I never listen too much to salesmen, obviously they need to get rid of the old stock.
i ran gt's for for a few years untill the gt's came out i wouldn't go back now.
:cheers:
Quote from: seth on Wednesday, 24 January 2018, 05:39 AM
i ran gt's for for a few years untill the gt's came out i wouldn't go back now.
:cheers:
Presume you mean ST's first then GT's after.
So approx 30% dearer but extra 35% mileage. one more or less equals the other on price per miles but is there any/much difference in performance ??
yes you were in quick i edited that post when i read it back.
yes the GT's feel much better in the wet and more stable at high speed when loaded up and more grip in the dry when chucking the big 14 about on fast A&B roads.
i get them for the better mileage as we do lots of motorway miles over in europe fully loaded.
in the spring in the uk for yhe last few years.
pirelli has had a deal so you can get a pair fitted for under £200
My next set will be Angel GT's. I just like the idea that myself and my bike will be looked after by angels. .... Hmmm!!! ok I'm not a girl :whatever: :lol: Anyway .... A question for my fellow UK riders. Does my number plate require a makers stamp or label?
uk number plates have to be a certain size and the letters do as well but nothing else dealer names or things like that.
most places who make numberplates do put a mark to say its the correct standard but normally on the back.
saying that ive not actually brought a new number plate for a while.
Quote from: seth on Wednesday, 24 January 2018, 06:37 AM
uk number plates have to be a certain size and the letters do as well but nothing else dealer names or things like that.
most places who make numberplates do put a mark to say its the correct standard but normally on the back.
saying that ive not actually brought a new number plate for a while.
Thanks Seth :onya: I was just wondering because I got a new plate, standard size, standard letters. But it has a Lion Rampant and a border. So thanks for clearing it up for me. Though I'm sure if anything is wrong with it ... I may see some distant flashing blue lights in my mirrors :happy1:
if you see blue lights change down a vouple of gears and say bye bye :stir:
Quote from: seth on Wednesday, 24 January 2018, 06:37 AM
uk number plates have to be a certain size and the letters do as well but nothing else dealer names or things like that.
most places who make numberplates do put a mark to say its the correct standard but normally on the back.
saying that ive not actually brought a new number plate for a while.
Actually whilst UK number plates are normally 9" x 7" its actually a myth that they have to be that size. The law states that the font must be of a certain type and size as must be the spacing - including the spacing to the edge of the number plate (so sometimes having a border arguably contravenes the law). Also for motorcycles the numbering must be of two layers - so those who run letterbox plates are contravening the law. The spacing, font and font size of the letters and numbers determine the plate size to be used. For the UK, 2 alpha, 2 numeric and 3 alpha this generally works out as a 9" x 7" plate
Number plates also must be BS approved and have an identified mark of the person and place where the number plate was made (many places now either do this to advertise, or, they stamp it into the perspex leaving it clear - so meet the law, but no visible signs. Generally most use name and post code as identifying marks.
Extract from UK law:
Motorcycles and tricyclesThere are separate rules for motorcycles and tricycles.
Motorcycles registered from 1 September 2001 must only display a number plate at the back of the vehicle.
Motorcycles registered before 1 September 2001 can display a number plate at the front, but do not have to.
The characters on the number plate must be set out over two lines and must be displayed on all motorcycles registered on or after 1 January 1973.
Tricycles made from four-wheeled bodies, such as saloon cars and quad bikes, must meet the normal requirements on page 9.
Tricycles built from motorcycles must meet the rules for motorcycles shown below.
- Characters must be 64mm tall
- Characters (except the number 1 or letter I) must be 44mm wide
- The character stroke (the thickness of the black print) must be 10mm
- The space between characters must be 10mm
- The space between the age identifier and the random letters must be 30mm
- The margins at the top, bottom and side of the plate must be at least 11mm
- Vertical space between the age identifier and the random numbers must be 13mm
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/533255/inf104-vehicle-registration-numbers-and-number-plates.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vehicle-registration-numbers-and-number-plates
As you will see - nothing on actual size of the plate itself - the letters, spacing etc determines the minimum for that
cheers for that barmy
:onya:
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Wednesday, 24 January 2018, 09:03 AM
Quote from: seth on Wednesday, 24 January 2018, 06:37 AM
uk number plates have to be a certain size and the letters do as well but nothing else dealer names or things like that.
most places who make numberplates do put a mark to say its the correct standard but normally on the back.
saying that ive not actually brought a new number plate for a while.
Actually whilst UK number plates are normally 9" x 7" its actually a myth that they have to be that size. The law states that the font must be of a certain type and size as must be the spacing - including the spacing to the edge of the number plate (so sometimes having a border arguably contravenes the law). Also for motorcycles the numbering must be of two layers - so those who run letterbox plates are contravening the law. The spacing, font and font size of the letters and numbers determine the plate size to be used. For the UK, 2 alpha, 2 numeric and 3 alpha this generally works out as a 9" x 7" plate
Number plates also must be BS approved and have an identified mark of the person and place where the number plate was made (many places now either do this to advertise, or, they stamp it into the perspex leaving it clear - so meet the law, but no visible signs. Generally most use name and post code as identifying marks.
Extract from UK law:
Motorcycles and tricycles
There are separate rules for motorcycles and tricycles.
Motorcycles registered from 1 September 2001 must only display a number plate at the back of the vehicle.
Motorcycles registered before 1 September 2001 can display a number plate at the front, but do not have to.
The characters on the number plate must be set out over two lines and must be displayed on all motorcycles registered on or after 1 January 1973.
Tricycles made from four-wheeled bodies, such as saloon cars and quad bikes, must meet the normal requirements on page 9.
Tricycles built from motorcycles must meet the rules for motorcycles shown below.
- Characters must be 64mm tall
- Characters (except the number 1 or letter I) must be 44mm wide
- The character stroke (the thickness of the black print) must be 10mm
- The space between characters must be 10mm
- The space between the age identifier and the random letters must be 30mm
- The margins at the top, bottom and side of the plate must be at least 11mm
- Vertical space between the age identifier and the random numbers must be 13mm
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/533255/inf104-vehicle-registration-numbers-and-number-plates.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vehicle-registration-numbers-and-number-plates
As you will see - nothing on actual size of the plate itself - the letters, spacing etc determines the minimum for that
. I Thank you barmy. Exactly what I needed to know :notworthy:
I'm also up for new tyres, a) rear is worn. b) front is worn assymetrically (all the bloody roundabouts here in WA) and c) both tyres are >6 years old, came with the bike when I bought it. Bike had 32,000kms on when it ended up in my garage, Ive put 5000kms on it since, and I don't know how many ks the current set has seen.
~20,000kms from a M/C tyre is pretty good, considering its the only contact with the road and we all put our faith in that contact patch.
I was quoted A$500 for a set of Michelin P4's, however I like the Angel GT's too.
Any thoughts on other suitable sport-tourer tyres?
Comments appreciated
Either set will be great Eric. We have Mitchy devotees & Pirelli devotees on the forum.
I've had both, as have a lot of us. For me, both were very good at the start, then the PR4's started to get an aversion to white lines & decided they didn't like the wet as much as they used to. This was from about ½ worn.
The Angels I've had on my black, were very good indeed straight out of the box, on the down side, these were the tyre that low sided me (on some loose gravel on a hairpin admittedly) at the start of Dec last year. Not blaming the tyres in either instance, just what I've experienced.
Now that you've opened the "can", just watch the "worms" go!
My worm says Angels :onya:
There's a PR5 out now as well, says it's even better in the wet ½ worn, than the PR4 is new.
my worm says just shut up. you know my choice. last weekend, speaking to bloke on very high mileage 14, he uses bridgestone. not a brand i like. he gets around 23 ks from a set. not sure how. on his 10th set. bloke at work had same on cb600 honda, front went out of shape at 4k.
the can was empty by the look of it. . .
Sometimes that a good thing KC.
Yup.
Not like the bloody colour thing.
over the colour thing, i just by pass those posts.
About Angel GT; I've had two Pilot Road 3 and two Pilot Road 4 rear tyres in my 14. I have liked them. I've been interested in Angel GT.
Today I visited in Helsinki MC Show 2018 and met a guy and saw his FJR 1300 and his 35 000 km driven Angel GT. There was 2 mm left.
He told me there is five different versions of 190/50-17 Angel GT. Unfortunately I could not ask him what they are and what it should be.
Does anybody here know?
@T 24https://ws.pirelli.com/b2cwsfitment/cxf/fod/get-fod?homologationId=24104
120/70 ZR 17 M/C (58W) TL Angel GT Fr.
190/50 ZR 17 M/C (73W) TL Angel GT
Had to edit the above post because of :facepalm:
@Andre Thank you!
Maybe the next set is Angel GT.
Is it as good as PR 4 on wet?
T24,good in the wet but 35ks is hard to believe. Just changed front at 19. Left rear on as still good.
According to the bumpf, the new Michelin Road 5's (Michelin have dropped the Pilot word from the range now) are supposed to be as good as or better than the Angel's in the wet even when half worn. In fact looking at the tread in the new 5's it does look remarkably similar to the Angels.....hmmmm.
Of course being a new tyre on the market, this is just the claim by Michelin, I haven't seen any consumer feedback to support this. But then tyre technology us changing all the time, the Angels must be due an update soon I guess as well - who knows what they will bring out.
Grog, I can't say is that 35 k the truth, but you can read it from www.goodwillbiker.com .
Mission of mr. Topi Rautjoki was to ride 21 "iron butts" during one summer, For the memory of his friend Topi Hynynen who had that original mission to ride those 21 iron butts, but he died in road accident on 7.7.2017 while he was riding that mission.
Goodwillbikers are working against school bullying.
Was thinking same thing about Angels Barmy, due an update. Think my originals were dated 2013, not sure. Nearly 5 yrs is a long time for one model. Bloody good tyres, guess theyre hard to improve on. My mates toy bike, ducati scrambler, wore out original tyres in 4th ks. Fitted Angels, now 20ks later, hardly worn. Light bike with no power so his should forever.
T24, if he says 35k, thats what ill believe. I wasnt being disrespectful. A great cause hes riding for. Bullying seems a world wide epidemic. On the road, at school. This world annoys me at present. Values all been thrown out. Ice a major prob, kids dont even want to know any history. My young blokes at work hardly use a hand spanner, a rattle gun of some sort is easier. Too bad when its wrecked something.
20k out of a tyre, I can only wish. I don't even get that out my classic bikes.
I've got Angels on mine at the moment but will be swapping for Pilot Road 4s. Not much wrong with them, I just thought the PR3s were more confidence inspiring so the 4s have to be better as they share the same profile with newer tech. I found the PRs to be more stable in a straight line when wet or over the white lines. They felt quicker to turn in as well. Lets face it, neither is a bad choice so I guess it's whatever you feel more confident with. :whatever:
Agree with the rattle gun statement.
I am due for new tyres.....many really like the Angel GT's and thats ok but for me l will be looking at the Michelin Road 5's. Have had 3 sets of PR4's and have been happy with them. So the 5 is the next generation.
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Sunday, 04 February 2018, 11:16 AM
Agree with the rattle gun statement.
I am due for new tyres.....many really like the Angel GT's and thats ok but for me l will be looking at the Michelin Road 5's. Have had 3 sets of PR4's and have been happy with them. So the 5 is the next generation.
That will be why you can pick up the 4s for a very good price :boogie:
Lloyd, funny that i found the opposite going from michy to angel. Straight line, turn in and white lines much nicer. Having said that, i only had pr2. Never tried 3 or 4. All pretty good in reality.
Quote from: grog on Sunday, 04 February 2018, 04:36 PM
Lloyd, funny that i found the opposite going from michy to angel. Straight line, turn in and white lines much nicer. Having said that, i only had pr2. Never tried 3 or 4. All pretty good in reality.
Exactly the same Grog, going from Bridgestone to Angels.
There's a common theme that runs through the tyre posts, & it usually goes along the lines of - "Time for a change, I'll put on some [insert brand - any brand, here] cause I've heard good things about them from others" so off they go & fit up the new treads, get 'em at the correct pressure & break them in nicely & low & behold, these are much better than my last lot, And they probably are, because they're new & the ones you rode last week were worn out.
A new tyre, from a reputable maker, is always going to feel nicer than your old ones you just changed, cause they're new.
There's probably only a handful of guys on here that will get the max performance out of a given tyre, the rest of us (me included for sure) would be lucky to push these modern, top of the range tyres to ½ it's capabilities, so, do we really need the additional performance avail in the top spec tyres? Probably not, but, it feels bloody good knowing you've got something special sticking you to the corners & knowing the tyre is more capable than you are, they inspire confidence.
2½ cents worth from down under
Agree 100% Col, as I had the same thought when I posted above.
The reason I say that is, when you are replacing the same brand of tyre again, they even feel heaps better. Which I have just done.
Better turn in (because they are not flat in the middle) better grip,better in the wet, don't snake on painted surface( of course, their new)
I do stand by my comment that the Angels are far better than Bridgestone BT023's though, that's for sure. :onya:
For its day though the BT023 was a good tyre - but now far outclassed by the Angels and Michelin Road 5's
Aren't they doing BT030 now though? Never tried them, has anyone?
Quote from: KiwiCol on Monday, 05 February 2018, 06:42 PM
Aren't they doing BT030 now though? Never tried them, has anyone?
Actually I am looking for suggestions. My bike has a BT021 on the rear and it is looking really squared off now. Thing is, there is an almost-new BT021 on the front so I'm thinking I should stick to Bridgestone on the rear for now so that they match.
So could I put a BT023 on the rear? Or even a BT030, which to be honest I didn't even know existed.
Looks like they've been out for a while, 2012! Must be onto something newer by now I'd say. BT040? BT 050?
https://www.aussiestreetbikes.com/index.php?threads/bridgestone-tyres-bt030-launch-and-review.28701/
Looks like the T31 to me!!
https://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/products/model/result.html?c%5BBike.maker_code%5D=SUZUKI&c%5BBike.displacement%5D=SUZUKI%3A%3A1400&c%5BBike.bike_name_e%5D=SUZUKI%3A%3A1400%3A%3AGSX1400+%282001-%29&c%5BBike.bike_model%5D=SUZUKI%3A%3A1400%3A%3AGSX1400+%282001-%29%3A%3AGY71A
Although if you have a BT021 on the front, the rubber must be getting a bit hardened off now, whether it has tread on it or not, I would seriously think of changing both to new rubber - BT021 was never that good in its day anyway for grip esp in the wet.
For what a new tyre costs - and often they are cheaper as a pair anyway - worth thinking about
Agree Col, new are nice. replacing worn angel on front with new is just awesome. changing from pr2 way back, rode them from new, angels were far better. i know the pr2 were old tech by todays standard. i wouldnt mix brands or models in same brand, just not what id do. as for lower spec tyres, no chinese tyres for me. bridgys, michs, pirelli, metzler, dunlop, all top of the tree stuff. just what suits you. i remember couple of years ago t30 bridgys were going to be everybodys choice, anyone use them now.
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Monday, 05 February 2018, 07:13 PM
Looks like the T31 to me!!
https://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/products/model/result.html?c%5BBike.maker_code%5D=SUZUKI&c%5BBike.displacement%5D=SUZUKI%3A%3A1400&c%5BBike.bike_name_e%5D=SUZUKI%3A%3A1400%3A%3AGSX1400+%282001-%29&c%5BBike.bike_model%5D=SUZUKI%3A%3A1400%3A%3AGSX1400+%282001-%29%3A%3AGY71A
Although if you have a BT021 on the front, the rubber must be getting a bit hardened off now, whether it has tread on it or not, I would seriously think of changing both to new rubber - BT021 was never that good in its day anyway for grip esp in the wet.
For what a new tyre costs - and often they are cheaper as a pair anyway - worth thinking about
My 14 had 2.5K on it when i bought it 2 years ago-the MOT tester mentioned the tread was fine but that I should be concerned on the age of the tyre (suspected to be original fit and 11 years old)-Dave made the same warning so I changed to PR4's What a difference :smile2:
According to Bridgestone Deutschland you can mix BT021, BT023, T30 und T30 EVO
I couldn't find the document on the Bridgestone site. Attached a screenshot from what I found on a dealer's site.
German laws and rules are very picky about what you can put on your bike. Manufacturers have to certify tires for each model. Considering the high (legal) speeds you can ride on the Autobahn this makes sense to me.
Quote from: Mister Fishfinger on Monday, 05 February 2018, 06:54 PM
Quote from: KiwiCol on Monday, 05 February 2018, 06:42 PM
Aren't they doing BT030 now though? Never tried them, has anyone?
Actually I am looking for suggestions. My bike has a BT021 on the rear and it is looking really squared off now. Thing is, there is an almost-new BT021 on the front so I'm thinking I should stick to Bridgestone on the rear for now so that they match.
So could I put a BT023 on the rear? Or even a BT030, which to be honest I didn't even know existed.
As you won't be putting a matching 021 on the back, I would make a change & go for a pirelli or Michy this time, but that is only because I didn't like the Bridgestone.
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Monday, 05 February 2018, 07:13 PM
Looks like the T31 to me!!
https://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/products/model/result.html?c%5BBike.maker_code%5D=SUZUKI&c%5BBike.displacement%5D=SUZUKI%3A%3A1400&c%5BBike.bike_name_e%5D=SUZUKI%3A%3A1400%3A%3AGSX1400+%282001-%29&c%5BBike.bike_model%5D=SUZUKI%3A%3A1400%3A%3AGSX1400+%282001-%29%3A%3AGY71A
Although if you have a BT021 on the front, the rubber must be getting a bit hardened off now, whether it has tread on it or not, I would seriously think of changing both to new rubber - BT021 was never that good in its day anyway for grip esp in the wet.
For what a new tyre costs - and often they are cheaper as a pair anyway - worth thinking about
The T31 is a No-Go for the 14. Bridgestone Germany clearly says on their website that it does "not fit" the 14.
I did find (took me a while as my coffee-level was a bit low :happy1: )the link on their site with the most up-to-date certification document for all the Bridgestone tires certified for the 14. http://bridgestone.azureedge.net/~/media/Files/Bridgestone/MC/Homologation/Suzuki/GSX1400_WVBN.ashx?vs=1&d=20161223T102806&la=de-de (http://bridgestone.azureedge.net/~/media/Files/Bridgestone/MC/Homologation/Suzuki/GSX1400_WVBN.ashx?vs=1&d=20161223T102806&la=de-de)
not bike tyres but car/4wd. weve just started using roadstone. 2 factories in china, one in korea. excellent tyres, have fitted to my car. said before i wouldnt fit chinese tyres to bike, great on car. bottom line is they are michelins with a diff name. factories owned by michelin. would you pay double to have michelin stamped on them, they sure grip in wet, all i care about with car tyres. if you could buy roadstone bike tyres as good as pr4, would you try at 1/2 the price. im not sure. if my mate tried, gave thumbs up, think i would.
Thanks for the tips gentlemen.
The only reason I wanted to stay with Bridgestone is because the front is almost new. Not my choice, the PO fitted it just before I bought it (allegedly). I can see the logic of changing both at the same time but it just seems such a waste.
According to the Bridgestone site, S21 is recommended fitment for the 14 now. That came out in 2016, so a bit newer.
So I did a bit more checking tonight. The front tire was manufactured in week 43 of 2016 - not too bad - but the rear was made in week 24 of 2010!
That's one of the hazards of buying a low mileage bike I guess. Looks like I'm doing some shopping this weekend.
my black/red 14 had done 6500 miles when i got it in 2016 still had the original BT021's on .
they were ok in the dry but almost un-rideable in the wet to the point of being dangerous.
2 new tyres were brought the next day.
the BT021's had loads of tread but no grip.
:cheers:
"The front tire was manufactured in week 43 of 2016 - not too bad"
I see where your coming from, as the tyre is not old & hard.
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Tuesday, 23 January 2018, 08:31 PM
Im still using PR4's and getting 12-15k also.
Cannot remember his handle but a fella was looking at Metzlers as they were on Superbike School bikes. Anyone on Metzlers?
Sorry to crash your thread Grog :cheers:
Yea Fruity - I was really happy with the Metzelers at the Super Bike School. They get 1 track day out of them and believe it or not (when its dry) they reverse the tyre to get another day out of them.
I have been an Angel fan for a few years but threw PR4 on couple years ago - Hated the tread pattern on front - went back to Angels.
Got around 11,000km on the front over 8 months. The right side always wears way way quicker than the left. Not sure if the camber of the road or all the roundabouts here.
Recently (December) put Metzeler Roadtec on front and as mentioned by some I have noticed that it is noisy - like a whistling sound, probly wind. My riding is Commute to work during week (200km/wk) and most weekends about 300km doing the ranges so I am looking for that dual compound that suits a fair bit of upright riding. Most of the guys I ride the ranges with are on Metzelers also but the more sticky ones. They on sport bikes and get about 5,000km but only do the weekend fun stuff.