Took her for a test ride. After having replaced one of the angle (ball) joints of the gearshift lever linkage, I now changed the worn out plastic bushings of the gearshift lever which were also worn. Replaced with PTFE coated metal bushings (14/20x9mm). Snug fit, no more wobbling. With the 2 measures no more clunking when shifting to 2nd and 3rd gear.
Sounds like something worth doing, ill check it out new year. Thanks for advice mate.
After having replaced one of the angle (ball) joints of the gearshift lever linkage (as the rivet type mounting had become loose) I have to adjust the gearshift lever now as I can get my foot only with gymnastics under the lever.
I added the pic from my previous post (one page back) about the angle joint again. The replacement is the M6 in the attached pic. Got it in SS with dust cap. Also added a washer and medium loctite. Also remember that one angle joint is right hand thread and the other is left hand. I still need to source the LH but it has only minor wiggle.
In the German forum are quite a few who have done this. Many needed to do it at relatively low mileage. I think the mileage the original riveted joints and plastic bearing last depends much on how heavy a foot you have.
Little money and effort - big difference :)
Good result Andre :onya:
Thank you.
As I am still not satisfied with gearshifting smoothness I'll do a bit more. Inspired by a German forum where putting in a new SPRING, number 25 in attached pic improved shifting a bit. I will also change numbers 20,21 (2x),24,27 (3x), as the gear shift shaft (17) has a little play. Will report here when the results are in (before season starts).
sorry to bother you Andre, is this the joint i need? had a look at mine ball joint has movement, also the bush. any idea where i can source the bush. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1PCS-Angle-Shape-Rod-End-Joint-Bearing-Ball-Joint-Rod-Bearing-Ball-End-Bearing/172780203802?hash=item283a80af1a:m:mOmFPPkzEclASN2jXt1dkaw
sorry double post, Andre on top of link i sent they advertise lh thread rose joints. is that what we need for front end?
My solution with inox joint and new shifting rod here...
http://www.motorkari.cz/motorka/?mid=68345&act=moto-denik-detail&ddid=59000
No bother
@grog That rose joint should be fine. Just double check the dimensions. Front joint is RH, the one attached to the lever is LH. I like the ones I used as they can be taken apart for thorough maintenance.
The first 2 links are stainless steel. Unfortunately two different suppliers as one doesn't have the LH and the other the RH.
RH https://www.ebay.de/itm/M6-VA-Winkelgelenk-DIN-71802-Edelstahl-V2A-Kugelgelenk-Edelstahl-CS-RH-M-6/162654729737?hash=item25defa3609:g:upwAAOSwo8hTrV62 (https://www.ebay.de/itm/M6-VA-Winkelgelenk-DIN-71802-Edelstahl-V2A-Kugelgelenk-Edelstahl-CS-RH-M-6/162654729737?hash=item25defa3609:g:upwAAOSwo8hTrV62) This doesn't come with the seal. It can be obtained from him however. https://www.ebay.de/itm/4-Winkelgelenk-M6-Dichtkappe-Neopren-Dichtung-DIN-71802-M-6-Neu/160914399532?hash=item25773ee12c:g:cr0AAOxyu1FRl0il (https://www.ebay.de/itm/4-Winkelgelenk-M6-Dichtkappe-Neopren-Dichtung-DIN-71802-M-6-Neu/160914399532?hash=item25773ee12c:g:cr0AAOxyu1FRl0il)
LH https://www.ebay.de/itm/Winkelgelenk-Kugelgelenk-CS-LH-DIN-71802-M6-Links-V2A-Edelstahl-mit-Dichkappe/152737530954?hash=item238fddc44a:g:v8gAAOSwxu1Z3JwO (https://www.ebay.de/itm/Winkelgelenk-Kugelgelenk-CS-LH-DIN-71802-M6-Links-V2A-Edelstahl-mit-Dichkappe/152737530954?hash=item238fddc44a:g:v8gAAOSwxu1Z3JwO)
Here are standard (steel/zinc plated) with seal from one supplier.
RH https://www.ebay.de/itm/M6-Winkelgelenk-mit-Neopren-Dichtung-Kugelgelenk-CS-RH-DIN-71802-M-6-Neu/160914397697?hash=item25773eda01:g:Qt8AAOSwnipWUHOX (https://www.ebay.de/itm/M6-Winkelgelenk-mit-Neopren-Dichtung-Kugelgelenk-CS-RH-DIN-71802-M-6-Neu/160914397697?hash=item25773eda01:g:Qt8AAOSwnipWUHOX)
LH https://www.ebay.de/itm/M6-Winkelgelenk-links-mit-Neopren-Dichtung-Kugelgelenk-CS-LH-DIN-71802-M-6-Neu/150786387253?hash=item231b91ad35:g:VbMAAMXQ8ABRlplj (https://www.ebay.de/itm/M6-Winkelgelenk-links-mit-Neopren-Dichtung-Kugelgelenk-CS-LH-DIN-71802-M-6-Neu/150786387253?hash=item231b91ad35:g:VbMAAMXQ8ABRlplj)
The bushings I used were a nice find by German-forum member. Simple install. Previously people used bushings made from sintered bronze, had to work them with a reamer to fit. I dont have the dimensions of the sintered ones. But you could orient yourself on these in the link.
Unfortunately they send these only to Germany, for your reference: https://www.ebay.de/itm/2-Gleitlager-1209-12-x-14-20-x-9-mm-wartungsfrei-mit-Bund-/162814339976? (https://www.ebay.de/itm/2-Gleitlager-1209-12-x-14-20-x-9-mm-wartungsfrei-mit-Bund-/162814339976?)
I'll be happy to get these bushings for those interested and ship them. Two of them cost me about 6 € (2€ postage incl.). Larger packs are cheaper (example 10 for about 21€), which would be an option if there are several who want to order together.
Quote from: V_i_c_i on Sunday, 24 December 2017, 09:26 PM
My solution with inox joint and new shifting rod here...
http://www.motorkari.cz/motorka/?mid=68345&act=moto-denik-detail&ddid=59000
Plenty of choices now :)
Really nice work on your 14 :smitten:
Thank you.
would this be ok for gear lever, not a bush but with plenty of grease, should be ok? 20mm outside, 14mm inside x 10mm long. needle roller bearing. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HK1410-14mm-x-20mm-x-10mm-Full-Complement-Drawn-Cup-Needle-Roller-Bearing-5pcs/302415285034?hash=item46695b0b2a:g:X~4AAOSwXedZ2rp1
@grog The dimensions are not correct!
Outside diameter needs to be 14mm, inside diameter 12mm. 10mm length would be ok as there is plenty of gap (could even be a little longer, would then just prodrude a little over the notch of the "axle". The 20mm in the bushings I used refer to the outside band. If you use something without a band you would need to make up for this by using appropriate washers (otherwise the lever would slide in and out). Or you could just let the bearings protrude out by the appropriate amount.
Needle bearing is just fine. Know of someone who used them with no issues (were from roller blades)
Quote from: Andre on Tuesday, 26 December 2017, 09:29 PM
@grog
Needle bearing is just fine. Know of someone who used them with no issues (were from roller blades)
Sorry, remember now that there was the "small" issue that he had to mill down the pin the lever rotates on, to make it fit the needle bearing.
Couldnt find another bearing correct size, just ordered bushes. Had to buy 10 so some spares for anyone in Oz that wants one. Will make sure its correct first.
Andre, received my gear lever bushes. 12mm inside perfect on shaft. 14 outside. so now i can remove plastic bush, it will fit also into gear lever? just a bit scared to destroy plastic bush before i know new will fit. thankyou.
There are 2 of the plastic bushes, one from each side. You can lift them plastic bushings out easily with a small screw driver. They come out undamaged unless you do it in very cold temperature as the plastic becomes brittle. Fat chance of that in your neck of the woods :worshippy:
The new ones I got where a little tight after fitting into the gear lever. After carefully (wood piece, small hammer) putting them on the shaft they fit perfect. Your new ones may differ.
Quote from: grog on Wednesday, 10 January 2018, 07:21 PM
...it will fit also into gear lever?
Don't know what you mean by that.
thank you Andre. my confidence restored. love your work. very helpfull. your input appreciated. i know its only a small thing but would be big to me if it didnt fit. will let know result. all thanks. no def. not cold here. 35 today with big warnings of huge heat for weekend.
@grog Did it all fit? Does it improve the shifting for you?
Andre, fitted new metal bush, spaced with a couple of washers. Plenty of heavy grease. Havent changed rose joints yet, lubed them up pretty well. All working fine.
I did the metal bush gear lever upgrade today, all of 15 minutes work and what a difference it had made, no play in the lever now and much more positive gear changes
Thanks for the info
Pete
Guys, keen to do the same, what parts do I need? New ball joint ends RH and LH and bushes? Available off ebay?
Eric, been a while since gear bushes. I never changed rose joints, just filled with anti dust spray grease. Still good. Ill have a look if i kept spare bushes, cant remember. Very cheap online, cant rem size, maybe 14 od and 12 id, not sure.
Thanks Andre, my eBay account looks like I can order the bushings with delivery to the UK. Will let you know if it works.
Quote from: Smu71 on Monday, 15 April 2024, 11:16 PMThanks Andre, my eBay account looks like I can order the bushings with delivery to the UK. Will let you know if it works.
Hope it works for you. As the measurements are provided, alternatives should be found in UK as well. Need help with translation? Ask Google's translator or myself :smile2:
Sorry to kick off an old thread but was thinking of doing this myself, a lot of the links to ebay are now old so would these work for the ball joints
Ebay item 252898244563
Sorry can't seem to be able to link it.
Paul
No need to be sorry. Thank you for reminding me to take them apart for clean and grease. Just about every year I think doing this. Years fly. Maybe this winter ???
This should be the link: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252898244563 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252898244563)
They seem to have the proper dimensions.
Cheers for that, now need to find the correct bushes to replace the nylon ones :cheers:
This is what you want, did mine late 2020 & still spot on
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123113213850
Ah nice one, does it need two, one from each side.
Quote from: Will14 on Monday, 14 October 2024, 04:56 AMThis is what you want, did mine late 2020 & still spot on
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123113213850
I'm trying to place that in my head. It's not for the lever pivot is it?
Quote from: Hooli on Monday, 14 October 2024, 05:06 AMQuote from: Will14 on Monday, 14 October 2024, 04:56 AMThis is what you want, did mine late 2020 & still spot on
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123113213850
I'm trying to place that in my
head. It's not for the lever pivot is it?
WARNING: DO NOT PLACE THIS IN YOUR HEAD!!! Follow instructions carefully. Observe all applicable local and international laws. Dispose of properly.
Only use for lever pivot
I'll order those then, it's only the floppy shift that makes mine feel old.
Hooli, will fix that floppy stuff, grease up with trailer grease, waterproof, might even keep your salt out.
My bushes and balljoints are ordered, also noticed that where its connected to the actual gearbox splines its not quite the same as pics and Haynes manual suggests, seems a spline off..........maybe ..........so that's getting adjusted maybe 🤔 :cheers:
Quote from: grog on Monday, 14 October 2024, 07:06 PMHooli, will fix that floppy stuff, grease up with trailer grease, waterproof, might even keep your salt out.
+1 on greasing
I do grease it up anyway, stops it seizing up with the salt etc.
Quote from: Phill P on Monday, 14 October 2024, 07:26 PMMy bushes and balljoints are ordered, also noticed that where its connected to the actual gearbox splines its not quite the same as pics and Haynes manual suggests, seems a spline off..........maybe ..........so that's getting adjusted maybe 🤔 :cheers:
To be fair there are loads of mistakes in the Haynes manuals
I'd head to the download section here in the org and get a genuine full suzuki workshop manual for free
In fairness the downloaded workshop manual it looks the same as my bike hey-ho, ball joints will improve things :grin:
Quote from: seth on Tuesday, 15 October 2024, 07:27 PMI'd head to the download section here in the org and get a genuine full suzuki workshop manual for free
Mistakes are in the "genuine full suzuki workshop manual" as well. If the Haynes is like the manual I have (but don't use), they just copied the mistakes from the Suzuki workshop manual. It can be quite expensive to follow the instructions. Most errors are
incorrect torque application. Using your brain can avoid at least some of the pitfalls.
I shall play and see what improves, just get the occasional clunk and a not fully home shift that drags itself in, could be my shifts but never had such problems on my xjr, or gsx-r for that matter, all similar mileage
Phill, very weird problem , not sure ive ever heard of 14 gear shift probs,mines maybe not as good cold, very minor. Smooth as silk shifter all other times. Clutch or no clutch, perfect shifts.
Never been a sweet shift, new clutch line helped but still not what you would call great.
Maybe a new chain and and sprocket would help.
I've always found the shift great on every 14 I've ridden, when compared to a lot of other bikes. I know different oils can have a big effect on the shift quality though, I went through several makes of oil till I found the best feeling one to me (which also gave the quietest top end on the engine).
Halfords semi synthetic
Quote from: Phill P on Wednesday, 16 October 2024, 02:19 AMHalfords semi synthetic
Hmm, not that then as I use the same oil.
Quote from: Phill P on Wednesday, 16 October 2024, 02:19 AMHalfords semi synthetic
Can you still get Halfords own brand semi synthetic oil? I looked online a couple of weeks ago & they didn't have it listed, called into two local stores and none there either, on a plus note they did replace my damaged trade card which reduces the price on most items I buy, by 20-25% :onya:
I have gone with Motul 5100 this time, not changed it yet but hoping that it is as good as the Halfords Oil, The Rockoil currently in there doesn't give the same smooth box at all
My local branch didn't have any recently either. I was told they've changed supplier & they're awaiting new stocks. We shall see. I've got a gallon on the shelf for my next oil change, but I'd rather stick with it after that as mine has run on it for about the last 140k.
Quote from: Andre on Tuesday, 15 October 2024, 08:46 PMQuote from: seth on Tuesday, 15 October 2024, 07:27 PMI'd head to the download section here in the org and get a genuine full suzuki workshop manual for free
Mistakes are in the "genuine full suzuki workshop manual" as well. If the Haynes is like the manual I have (but don't use), they just copied the mistakes from the Suzuki workshop manual. It can be quite expensive to follow the instructions. Most errors are incorrect torque application. Using your brain can avoid at least some of the pitfalls.
Luckily I don't use a torque wrench as I don't fit new bolts only refit the old ones (tightening to the original torque will snap older bolts easily)
And for things that need to be really tight I use an impact gun .
Nothing has gone wrong yet but then again I've only been at this a short time (40 years on bikes)
Quote from: seth on Thursday, 17 October 2024, 01:25 AMQuote from: Andre on Tuesday, 15 October 2024, 08:46 PMQuote from: seth on Tuesday, 15 October 2024, 07:27 PMI'd head to the download section here in the org and get a genuine full suzuki workshop manual for free
Mistakes are in the "genuine full suzuki workshop manual" as well. If the Haynes is like the manual I have (but don't use), they just copied the mistakes from the Suzuki workshop manual. It can be quite expensive to follow the instructions. Most errors are incorrect torque application. Using your brain can avoid at least some of the pitfalls.
Luckily I don't use a torque wrench as I don't fit new bolts only refit the old ones (tightening to the original torque will snap older bolts easily)
And for things that need to be really tight I use an impact gun .
Nothing has gone wrong yet but then again I've only been at this a short time (40 years on bikes)
Says the man who's brakes fell off the other week :stir: :whistling:
Quote from: Hooli on Thursday, 17 October 2024, 01:49 AMQuote from: seth on Thursday, 17 October 2024, 01:25 AMQuote from: Andre on Tuesday, 15 October 2024, 08:46 PMQuote from: seth on Tuesday, 15 October 2024, 07:27 PMI'd head to the download section here in the org and get a genuine full suzuki workshop manual for free
Mistakes are in the "genuine full suzuki workshop manual" as well. If the Haynes is like the manual I have (but don't use), they just copied the mistakes from the Suzuki workshop manual. It can be quite expensive to follow the instructions. Most errors are incorrect torque application. Using your brain can avoid at least some of the pitfalls.
Luckily I don't use a torque wrench as I don't fit new bolts only refit the old ones (tightening to the original torque will snap older bolts easily)
And for things that need to be really tight I use an impact gun .
Nothing has gone wrong yet but then again I've only been at this a short time (40 years on bikes)
Says the man who's brakes fell off the other week :stir: :whistling:
That's true but HEL have replaced everything F.O.C. as they aren't sure there was also a fault with them .
Quote from: Hooli on Monday, 14 October 2024, 05:44 PMI'll order those then, it's only the floppy shift that makes mine feel old.
Back to gearshifts...
These turned up this morning. They look bigger than I'd expected, I'll see if they fit at the weekend.
Quote from: seth on Thursday, 17 October 2024, 01:25 AMQuote from: Andre on Tuesday, 15 October 2024, 08:46 PMQuote from: seth on Tuesday, 15 October 2024, 07:27 PMI'd head to the download section here in the org and get a genuine full suzuki workshop manual for free
Mistakes are in the "genuine full suzuki workshop manual" as well. If the Haynes is like the manual I have (but don't use), they just copied the mistakes from the Suzuki workshop manual. It can be quite expensive to follow the instructions. Most errors are incorrect torque application. Using your brain can avoid at least some of the pitfalls.
Luckily I don't use a torque wrench as I don't fit new bolts only refit the old ones (tightening to the original torque will snap older bolts easily)
And for things that need to be really tight I use an impact gun .
Nothing has gone wrong yet but then again I've only been at this a short time (40 years on bikes)
getting off topic i know, but re torque wrenches, I love em. A mate i have relies on his elbow or an impact gun. Case in point, we both got new caravans around the same time, both with the fancy D035 cruisemaster hitch pin setup. These need the pin on the hitch that fits the car to be torqued to 450Nm to stop it coming off and your van parting ways with the van. I did mine up with my large torque wrench to spec, my mate relied on his impact rattle gun. For fun I checked his after a run to and from our favourite camping spot, his hitch pin nut was at less than 50% of the required torque. Not ideal when towing a 3t caravan over rutted and corrugated roads. Mine was still to spec. So I rely on my torque wrenches a lot.
Agree Eric,My last job if you fitted a wheel and didnt hand torque, instant dismissal.We also did the check after rattle gun tighten,results showed inconsistent torque many times.Many other reasons to use, stretch bolts, fragile bolts etc etc.
Will, meant to mention. Years ago tested about 10 diff oils in 14.Briefly, slight noise change with some but gearchange notchiness definitely different with diff brands.A bit difficult as brands here vary a bit from UK.Actual winner was maybe the cheapest, the worst and dearest, terrible gearchange was Motul. Maybe a diff blend to you have, cant remember. Its price was about 5x Gulf Western,which i find works well.
Quote from: grog on Friday, 18 October 2024, 04:42 PMgearchange notchiness definitely different with diff brands......Actual winner was maybe the cheapest,
I am not at all surprised that the "actual winner was maybe the cheapest".
IMO the difference depends on the amount and type of polymer in the viscosity index improver contained in the oil. More of the VI-improver reduces the noise. A higher mass of the individual polymer particle reduces the noise more. However, the higher the mass, the less shear-stability. Shear-stability determines the longevity of the VI-improver.
Think of the VI-Improver as rubber or plastic particles, then it should be how they reduce the noise.
Lots of VI-improver with low shear-stability is the obvious choice to reduce gearshift noise and improve smoothness during gearshift. To some, maybe the majority, this appeals as a good choice. I don't belong to this crowd. :coffeescreen:
To make out the quality of oil by its ability to reduce noise and or notchiness during gearshift is misguided imho. I'd rather look out for the mechanical condition of the gearshift system and the way I initiate a gear shift. (Hey, I made it back to the original topic :boogie: )
I prefer oil (hint: NOT the cheapest) that doesn't need a lot of VI-improver to achieve the desired SAE viscosity spec.
Quote from: grog on Friday, 18 October 2024, 04:42 PMWill, meant to mention. Years ago tested about 10 diff oils in 14.Briefly, slight noise change with some but gearchange notchiness definitely different with diff brands.A bit difficult as brands here vary a bit from UK.Actual winner was maybe the cheapest, the worst and dearest, terrible gearchange was Motul. Maybe a diff blend to you have, cant remember. Its price was about 5x Gulf Western,which i find works well.
I'm not surprised, I found Motul the worst when I went through all the brands too. Crap gearbox & top end rattles.
Andre, i dont know all that stuff, i do because you said.All i know is motor sounds fine, gearchange/clutch is good. No oil use between scheduled change, no smoke from exhaust,about all i need.
Any discussion about oil is pretty much useless. Just like religion, politics, climate change, gender, etc. etc.
Still like to throw my 1 1/2 cents in :happy1: