On a previous post about puncture repairs and whether they are regarded as permanent, it was suggested I ask about oil (tongue in cheek)..
When I picked my bike up last week from a Yamaha dealership they had just done a service. They used the Motul 5100 10W-40 semi synthetic in the bike..
When the engine is cold / warm the gear changes are deliciously smooth..
When the engine is hot (at operating temp) the gear change is quite notchy (sometimes difficult to get neutral).
My previous bike (Yamaha MT-01) had a totally different feel to the gearbox and I had got used to that.. It was a longer action if that makes sense..
My question is..
Which oil seems to give a smooth gear change.. I assume this must make some difference because the engine and gearbox share the same oil.
S.
I was using Motil 5100 and not 100% happy with gearbox feel. Going from neutral into first was terrible, the clunk was embarrasing. So tried Motul 300V three times the price but no better. Have changed to a cheaper Gulf Western Australian oil and am now happy with the gearbox. Though i believe every gearbox has to be gotten used to.
The English boys will be along soon to point you in the right direction.
Without taking part of the oil part of of this discussion, rather some personal observations about the gearbox and changing the gear.
Most of you probably know that when the engine is "cold" the bike is running on higher RPM. Always a good idea to wait until you have your idle settled to nominal figures before engaging first gear. I have also noticed that sometimes when I change from neutral to first with "pushing" the bike onwards just that little and softly pressing the gear lever down it helps to reduce that clunk effect. Someone can probably explain the theory behind this.
For the rest of the gears (changing up that is) what I do is I lift the gear lever slightly, I try to take the "slack" off from the lever movement until the point when the next gear is being engaged (you can try to find this point by moving the lever with your hand when bike on side stand and engine nor running), simultaneously on that point releasing some throttle, then pulling clutch in and giving that final push for gear lever. Most of the time this works as a treat and I have totally smooth gear change. I have noticed that at least the gearbox on my 14 is not as accurate as with the newer bikes, who would have guessed. :whistling: For example I tested brand new Suzuki SV650 and that gearbox was smooth as silk. I could not even made it clunk even I tried... better stay away from newer bikes if you want to stick with the 14 :grin:
That is how I do it. I cannot say how much oil brand/type has effect on a smooth gearbox operation and how much of the not-that-smooth operation is being created by the driver, or me. ??? I have always used Motul 5100 10W-40.
I changed from Fuchs Silkolene comp 4 semi Synthetic (very expensive) to an Aussie brand, Penrite Full Synthetic at less than half the price. Definitely better gear changes, but still the clunk into 1st which is normal.
See what the local lads have to say soon.
I always used Silkolene comp 4 semi Synthetic and had no issues, in fact was very happy with that oil.
Others in the UK on here are very happy with Halfords 10w/40 4 Stroke Part Motorcycle Part Synthetic Engine Oil, as you get 5 litres, enough to do oil and filter change
Do read through the (sticky) tech tips on the forum though Speedy - see these threads relevant to the "oils" subject:
http://gsx1400owners.org/forum_test/index.php?topic=17.0
http://gsx1400owners.org/forum_test/index.php?topic=435.0
Changed from a JASO-MA spec to a JASO-MA2 oil. That made a, however minor, difference.
Oil can't perform miracles. It can't change the hardware.
I am going to look at a couple things in the future based on suggestions found on the net:
a) Spring (PART NO: 09444-20001), which sits on the gear shift shaft, loosens strength (even several cases where it broke - with and without resulting engine damage). After replacing it, shifting was much smoother.
b) Pushrod - someone measured the thing and found it to be worn out (shorter). After replacing with a new one, shifting (clutch separation) was smoother. Where the pushrod contacts the slave cylinder piston wear down can be present as well.
People are talking how the gearbox works with some oil... Mostly it comes from how the clutch is working with some oil. (imo)
clunk into first is just how it is. i dont have any change problems with mine. a very sweet gearbox.
mines at 16K, i change the oil every 5K & use expensive Motul crap mainly because I tend to be a little ham-fisted with the gear (stomping on levers, poping clutches, rushing/forcing changes etc..)...
Was told big suzuki bottom ends are bullet-proof...I guess Ill find out... :facepalm:
It gets a bit clunky & misses the odd gear when the change becomes due but that all goes away with fresh oil... :hat:
Once again..
Thanks to you all for your replies.
S.
Change the clutch fluid & while you're there pop the slave off to clean the pushrod & make sure the 'front' of the slave where the rod sits isn't full of road crud. 9 times out of 10 it's a filthy pushrod sticking in the block on mine, they get plastered with chain lube & road dirt.
Oil wise, Halfrauds 10w40 semi bike oil every 4k seems ok. Mine runs quieter on it than others I've tried & at 113k it still doesn't use any. I guess it's run enough to be sure now...
Is it fair to say that this clutch fluid hadnt been changed for a while ?
S.
Mine comes out the slave that colour every year.
Maybe the mod somewhere on the forum using busa? bits to keep crud out the slave would help, I've never bothered to find out.
Just bought some Castrol from Halfords 20% off - wait and see how it is - oil change due now but should I leave it until spring ? won't be riding much more now winter is here :smile2:
I have never hibernated my bikes over winter..
But obviously I pick and choose the days with OK weather (Just like the "Summer")..
Going on "The Hercules Run" charity bike ride tomorrow and of course its set to pee down !!
Just been out (in the car) and bought a full set of waterproofs..
I WILL enjoy the ride..
I Will enjoy the ride...
I will . . . . . .
It doesn't get better sitting around. If you chose to wait with the change till after winter, then store the oil in unopened container in a place that does not experience much change in temperatures.
I would change the oil now because the crud in the old oil is certainly not a benefit for the engine. Then change oil again when driving season starts. A lubrication specialist for a German car maker stated that oil (and its additives) is only good for 6 months. The 14's service manual prescribes a change every 6000 km or 6 months.
Thanks Andre,
I agree with what you say about oil..
I am "Old School" and always change oil (Car and bike) regularly.
I have had 7 Mercedes cars.. Including the rare CLK63 AMG !! ( Only 25 in the UK). What an engine that was !!!
My buddy got rid of his CLK. Just got him into trouble to often when barely touching that gas pedal :whistling:
Them German car makers are extremely fussy about engine oil. Use an oil that is not on their officially approved list for a specific engine and you lose the warranty.
From everything I've read it's better to change the oil before parking the bike up.
From what I've seen & understood the impurities in old oil can fall out of suspension and collect at the bottom, which is fine in the sump etc but not so good in the film of oil in your bearings.
It doesn't concern me enough to do an oil change early before parking it up though.
Quote from: Hooli on Sunday, 01 October 2017, 12:49 AM
From everything I've read it's better to change the oil before parking the bike up.
From what I've seen & understood the impurities in old oil can fall out of suspension and collect at the bottom, which is fine in the sump etc but not so good in the film of oil in your bearings.
It doesn't concern me enough to do an oil change early before parking it up though.
I had to change the sump seal because it was leaking. There was a thick layer of crude lying on the bottom of the sump. Not sure whether that crude gets to move when engine gets warm but if it does I am sure it is no good. Therefore cleaned, of course, the whole sump. By that time my bike had around 26 tkm on the clock.
Always use Castrol RxSuper Diesel oil, 15w-40 API. Been usung it since 20,000km's have 100,000kms. High detergent contraction & Turbo rated. Give it a try, you won't go back. 20L = $80-100
Quote from: Notty on Saturday, 30 September 2017, 09:48 PM
Just bought some Castrol from Halfords 20% off - wait and see how it is - oil change due now but should I leave it until spring ? won't be riding much more now winter is here :smile2:
Oil changed to Castrol Power semi synthetic and seems quieter but may be just due to fresh oil ( 2.5k since last change ) its started raining so will have to wait for a road test - and no mess using the Fumoto oil drain valve I got from Dave :smile2:
Quote from: Starion VR4 on Monday, 02 October 2017, 06:54 PM
Always use Castrol RxSuper Diesel oil, 15w-40 API. Been usung it since 20,000km's have 100,000kms. High detergent contraction & Turbo rated. Give it a try, you won't go back. 20L = $80-100
Have heard from several people who use diesel oil without problems. The manual states:
QuoteUse a premium quality 4-stroke motor oil to ensure longer ser-
vice life of your motorcycle. Use only oils which are rated SF or
SG under the API service classification.
The recommended viscosity is SAE 10W-40.
SAE 15W-40 (50) is acceptable IF no other can be had. 15W may not be that great for those driving through European winter
API SF (minimum).
No mention of JASO MA, MA2 (higher friction properties - good against clutch slipping, not so good for wear protection)
There is nothing in there saying NO diesel oil.
This is from the Castrol RxSuper Diesel oil 15W-40 datasheet:
QuotePetrol Engines – using all types of fuel (unleaded, LRP, LPG & CNG).
Note: As with all API CI-4 and CI-4 Plus qualified engine oils, the phosphorous content does not
comply with Australian Motor Industry agreed limits for catalytic converter equipped petrol engines.
The higher phosphorous content may reduce efficiency and/or effective life of catalytic converters.
For those who have a 14 with cat (and care) the later is important.
More from the Castrol RxSuper Diesel oil 15W-40 datasheet:
QuoteSAE Viscosity Grade - 15W-40
KV @40 °C cSt 125
KV @100 °C cSt 15.9
CCS @-20 °C 6700 mPas
Viscosity Index 135
Pour Point -33 °C
Flash Point (COC) 210 °C
Total Base Number mg/KOH/g 10.9
From data sheet of the 100% synthetic oil I use LiquiMoly Motorbike 4T Synth 10W-50 Street Race
QuoteSAE class (engine oils) 10W-50, API SN, JASO MA2
Viscosity at 40 °C 123 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100 °C 18,5 mm²/s
Viscosity index 169
Viscosity at -25°C (CCS) <= 7000 mPas
Pour point -39 °C
Evaporation loss (Noack) 5,0 %
Flash point 254 °C
Total base number 6,3 mg KOH/g
When I compare the 2 oils I see the latter to be clearly ahead when it comes to dealing with high temperatures. Mind you that the temperatures in the 14's engine combustion areas see very high temps (not nearly as low as displayed on a thermo you might have sitting in the clutch area or indicated by the hardly ever active oil cooler fan).
The higher detergent content of the diesel oil is a nice touch, but that is sorely needed in a diesel that produces tons of soot.
AMSOIL, a leading US lubricant manufacturer shares their view about the need for motorcycle specific oils here https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/motorcycles/articles/use-motorcycle-oil-in-your-bike/ (https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/motorcycles/articles/use-motorcycle-oil-in-your-bike/)
You go into a lot of detail on those oils Andre, lots of research & understanding - well done. I don't think any 14's have a cat though.
I'm of the opinion the 14 engine isn't a particularly 'high strung / stressed' engine, it seems quite happy with a multitude of different oils and grades. Yes there is a specified grade recommended & most seem to stick to it or something close, but as long as it's getting frequent changes they seem to keep going without too much fuss.
Can anyone actually recall a 14 engine suffering undue / premature engine wear or failure caused by incorrect oil? (I'm not talking about stuffing the clutch plates because of using friction modified oils here) Be interested to hear from people on that.
Hmmm... than I might be the only one with a cat in the 14. It starts purring as soon as I hit the starter button.
I research stuff because I like doing so ... and have nothing else to do :coffeescreen:
What kind of oil you put into the 14 doesn't really matter that much. That is the opinion of my friendly Suzuki dealership guy who has been at the dealership for the last 15 years at least. However, he talked about engines of 50000 km!
Haven't heard of any engine damage due to the oil chosen either.
However, as long as I don't know anyone who has a 14 with 450,000 km on it, using a car oil (petrol or diesel) without engine failure running the bike semi-hard, I stick to the data sheets and what else I gathered from my research. I spend much more on coffee than on premium oil and premium fuel. :coffeescreen:
Can't help you with 450,000km, but mine is around 180,000km on Halfords own make 10w40 motorbike oil. Runs sweet & doesn't use a drop. Changed every 4,000miles (about 6,500km).
@ Andre
Nice research work, really.
I have used several 15 w 40 diesel oils in my bikes many years and over 250 000 km (total) with no problems.
Two years ago I had some idle smoking problems with my turbo 14 and I started to test different motorcycle oils. OK, the problem was not in oils, it was in my breathing system and it is solved now.
Some things I noticed in my "tests": Some motorcycle oils are not washing engine enough, they just leave the soot in the engine, and look "as new oils" when you drain them ( Motul 5100 was the worst oil I have ever used ).
I have seen pictures in this forum from opened engine cases and writings "how clean it is, I have used XXXXX motorcycle oil XX years".
In fact they seem VERY dirty engines to me, people just havent seen clean engines.
Now, at the moment, I am using Teboil 15 w 50 Super bike, full synthetic motorcycle oil ( API SH/SJ/SG, JASO MA, API GL1), but I cant see any differenses to Teboil 15 w 40 SHPD turbo diesel oil or Mobil delvac MX 15 w 40 oil.
And the differense how smooth gearbox is working, comes mostly from clutch.
The crux when looking at oils is that many manufacturers are very stingy about supplying data sheets.
Even if you have data sheets, "nice values" are not that meaningful by themselves. Important is how they were achieved. Did they use a basis oil that inherently achieves a substantial part of these values or have they dumped in lots of additives to achieve this. Many of the additives deteriorate rather quickly and you end up with the properties of a "cheap" oil whose properties may not be the best but much more stable in the long-run.
Having said that, I will not use a "cheap" oil but only those which exclusively use group IV basis oil with relative small amounts of additives. They have inherent top properties which are very stable.
Unfortunately we have almost exclusively anecdotal and subjective reports on how a specific oil performs.
What I do gather is that the 14's clutch is quite indifferent of the oil it gets.
And I agree with T 24 that gearbox smoothness is strongly affected by the clutch performance. As I am not happy with my gearbox working, I will first get a new clutch slave cylinder and (left-hand) push rod. Someone reported that his old push rod was shorter than a new one (didn't provide the length of eiter one though). If still not satisfied, I will look at changing clutch springs (individual springs could be weaker than the others), clutch plates, right-side push rod, and SPRING 09444-20001 (changing this spring was reported to make shifting smoother when weakened, as well broken in some cases with and without resulting engine damage).
Quote from: Notty on Tuesday, 03 October 2017, 01:41 AM
Quote from: Notty on Saturday, 30 September 2017, 09:48 PM
Just bought some Castrol from Halfords 20% off - wait and see how it is - oil change due now but should I leave it until spring ? won't be riding much more now winter is here :smile2:
Oil changed to Castrol Power semi synthetic and seems quieter but may be just due to fresh oil ( 2.5k since last change ) its started raining so will have to wait for a road test - and no mess using the Fumoto oil drain valve I got from Dave :smile2:
Yippee the sun was shining so had a 100 mile run - seems smoother gear change and tick over - is this because its castrol or fresh oil ? good thing is the oil is red and sooo easy to check the level :)
I run the Penrite MC4ST full synthetic with PAO-ESTER 10W-40 in both the GSX and the old DR and they both love it, Also most of my mates now run it in their dirt bikes as well and from all reports it's to quote as being "good shit" from them all :onya: :onya:
Heres the link for you Andre if your interested
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/categories/motorcycle-go-kart/4-stroke-engine-oils/mc4-st-10w-40-pao-ester
And here's the Date Sheet
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/msds/MC4-ST%20Full%20Synthetic%20Four%20Stroke%20Motorcycle%20Oil%2010W-40%20Rev%200.3%200816.pdf
Thanks Trav :)
I look at the data sheets like the following.
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/MC4-ST%2010W-40%20(PAO%20ESTER)%20.pdf (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/MC4-ST%2010W-40%20(PAO%20ESTER)%20.pdf)
However, an important data is missing from that sheet but found in the safety data sheet whose link you provided.
That is the flash point. "Typical Flash Point 206 degree C." That flash point I would expect from a mineral oil! Pretty low for a full synth oil.
I do like the zinc level (since I don't have a catalysator in my 14). The boron is also good to have in the oil.
Density at 15°C, kg/L 0.861
Viscosity, Kinematic, cSt at 40°C 87
Viscosity, Kinematic, cSt at 100°C 13.6
Viscosity Index 158
Cold Cranking Viscosity, cP at -25°C 6150
Zinc, Mass % 0.124
Boron, Mass % 0.063
Phosphorus, Mass % 0.112
Sulphated Ash, mass % 1.2
Base Number 9.8
JASO MA
The cSt at 100°C I don't like. It is towards the low end for SAE 40.
JASO MA is also a low standard.
Also I am not keen on Esters as they attack the seals. Penrite writes regarding this: "... there are some downsides to esters. One concern when formulating with ester base stocks is compatibility with the elastomer material used in the seals. All esters will tend to swell and soften most elastomer seals however, the degree to which they do so can be controlled through selection. Another disadvantage with esters is that they can react with water or hydrolyse under certain conditions."
Just judging from the data I would rather take the Penrite MC4-ST Full Synthetic Four Stroke Motorcycle Oil 10W-40.
The flash point is more like it. The cSt at 100°C is close to SAE 50 (better for those hot temps down under). It does have the same amount of zinc. It meets JASO MA2.
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/MC-4%20FULL%20SYNTHETIC%2010W-40%20.pdf (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/MC-4%20FULL%20SYNTHETIC%2010W-40%20.pdf)
Typical Flash Point 222 °C
TYPICAL DATA
Density at 15°C, kg/L 0.865
Viscosity, Kinematic, cSt at 40°C 97
Viscosity, Kinematic, cSt at 100°C 15.1
Viscosity Index 165
Cold Cranking Viscosity, cP at -25°C 5049
Zinc, Mass % 0.124
Sulphated Ash, mass % 1.17
Base Number 9.5
JASO MA2
Again, based on their data, I would get the NON-Ester Full synthetic from Penrite.
I did my first oil and filter change 2 weeks ago.
I cant say which oil was in already BUT I can tell you that the Motul 5100 I have put in has made the gearchange WORSE!
Its nothing to do with clutch plates etc.
The lubricity of various oils will obviously affect the gearchange mechanicals.
In the various cars I have owned in the past I have on advice of the various forums switched gear oil types/makes with some pretty startling results with regards to gear change.
I know cars have seperate gearbox oil but it shows that different oil types/makes have a definite effect on gearchange.
I certainly wont use the motul again.
My prvious bike the MT-01 slipped its clutches when I used fully synthetic oil.
I am surprised to read that the GSX is ok with it.
I will do more research and try some synthetic if I like what I read.
Quite like the idea of Deisel oils..
mmmmm
Thanks for that Andre I do appreciate the imput. :onya:
I'll try the non ester on the GSX next change
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 06:28 PM
Quite like the idea of Deisel oils..
mmmmm
I think Snapey runs Valvoline 15/40 diesel oil in his bike & has done for years with no ill effect, but bet it's nice & clean inside!
Quote from: Trav Man on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 06:59 PM
Thanks for that Andre I do appreciate the imput. :onya:
I'll try the non ester on the GSX next change
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Penrite-Full-Synthetic-Engine-Oil-10W-40-6-Litre/348769
This is the Penrith one I have been using, which is recommended for 4 stroke wet clutch motorcycles.
Don't pay extra for Penrith so called specialty Motorcycle oils which are worse.
Andre, what do the specs on this look like to you ?
oil talk. was talked to death on old forum. somewhere on there was my report on what i tried, was 5 or 6 different types. silkolene, valvoline, penrite, castrol, nothing to do with clutch action, all were good in that department. even tried the most expensive shell, recod by suzuki dealer. biggest pain in arse from silko was 4l containers, had to get top up bottle. slight timing chain rattle from cold with every oil, winter temps especially, down to 5 degrees. last two years using gulf western synnex 3000. semi syn. no rattles at all, gear change much better than any others. my oil choice for my bike, my stock oil choice for my shop. we do around 50 to 70 car services each week using it. never a prob. very cheap, can buy 5l at repco for 20 bucks, motul up near 100, shell 94 bucks. silko around 75 with top up bottle. best oil ive tried. figures mean nothing to me, just what works. victor bray uses it in his 2000bhp drag car, good enough for a humble 14.
@Speedy1959 As I earlier wrote "Motul 5100 was the worst oil I have ever used" ! And very expensive! Never again.
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 06:24 PM
I did my first oil and filter change 2 weeks ago.
I cant say which oil was in already BUT I can tell you that the Motul 5100 I have put in has mad the gearchange WORSE!
Its nothing to do with clutch plates etc.
The lubricity of various oils will obviously affect the gearchange mechanicals.
In the various cars I have owned in the past I have on advice of the various forums switched gear oil types/makes with some pretty startling results with regards to gear change.
I know cars have seperate gearbox oil but it shows that different oil types/makes have a definite effect on gearchange.
I certainly wont use the motul again.
My prvious bike the MT-01 slipped its clutches when I used fully synthetic oil.
I am surprised to read that the GSX is ok with it.
I will do more research and try some synthetic if I like what I read.
Can't go wrong with Halfords oil, been using it for over 30 years with no problems.
Quote from: T 24 on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 07:55 PM
@Speedy1959
As I earlier wrote "Motul 5100 was the worst oil I have ever used" ! And very expensive! Never again.
I've always used Motul 5000 as it's one of the cheapest I've found..BUT, I don't think the gearbox likes it very much..Quite rough and sometimes not very positive gear changes.
I'll be looking to change to a different brand next oil and filter change.
I usually pick up 4+1 litre from a sell on Ebay for £24.85
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motul-5000-4T-Semi-Synthetic-4-Stroke-10W40-Motorcycle-Bike-Engine-Oil/371317089949?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
Quote from: Sweaty on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 07:20 PM
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Penrite-Full-Synthetic-Engine-Oil-10W-40-6-Litre/348769
This is the Penrith one I have been using, which is recommended for 4 stroke wet clutch motorcycles.
Don't pay extra for Penrith so called specialty Motorcycle oils which are worse.
Andre, what do the specs on this look like to you ?
@Sweaty @Trav Man Absolutely totally the exact same as for MC4-ST Full Synthetic Four Stroke Motorcycle Oil 10W-40http://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/FULL%20SYNTHETIC%2010W-40.pdf
Instead of using JASO MA2 they say "non–friction modified"
Great find Sweaty!
@Speedy1959 Here you got a light duty diesel engine oil for your 14.
Leads me to rethink my aversion to diesel engine oils :confused1:
That Penrite oil has good specs, Jaso MA2, full zink, etc. (and diesel oil, keeps clean). Can be worth of trying...
Quote from: mjgt on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 07:56 PM
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 06:24 PM
I did my first oil and filter change 2 weeks ago.
I cant say which oil was in already BUT I can tell you that the Motul 5100 I have put in has mad the gearchange WORSE!
Its nothing to do with clutch plates etc.
The lubricity of various oils will obviously affect the gearchange mechanicals.
In the various cars I have owned in the past I have on advice of the various forums switched gear oil types/makes with some pretty startling results with regards to gear change.
I know cars have seperate gearbox oil but it shows that different oil types/makes have a definite effect on gearchange.
I certainly wont use the motul again.
My prvious bike the MT-01 slipped its clutches when I used fully synthetic oil.
I am surprised to read that the GSX is ok with it.
I will do more research and try some synthetic if I like what I read.
Can't go wrong with Halfords oil, been using it for over 30 years with no problems.
same here used halfords 10w/50 semi synthetic oul for best part of 100,000 miles over 7 gsx1400's change both oil and filter every 4-5000 miles never a problem and gearbox is just nice and smooth .
:cheers:
Quote from: T 24 on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 07:55 PM
@Speedy1959
As I earlier wrote "Motul 5100 was the worst oil I have ever used" ! And very expensive! Never again.
Indeed you did T24..
The Motul 5100 has been in 2 weeks and maybe 150 miles.. As soon as it stops bloody raining I shall be changing it..
To make myself clear re gear change.. Its NOT the clutch action I am on about..
Its the notchy stiff, rough gear change felt through the gear lever. It became apparent as soon as I set off with the new oil in.
Quote from: seth on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 10:31 PM
Quote from: mjgt on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 07:56 PM
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 06:24 PM
I did my first oil and filter change 2 weeks ago.
I cant say which oil was in already BUT I can tell you that the Motul 5100 I have put in has mad the gearchange WORSE!
Its nothing to do with clutch plates etc.
The lubricity of various oils will obviously affect the gearchange mechanicals.
In the various cars I have owned in the past I have on advice of the various forums switched gear oil types/makes with some pretty startling results with regards to gear change.
I know cars have seperate gearbox oil but it shows that different oil types/makes have a definite effect on gearchange.
I certainly wont use the motul again.
My prvious bike the MT-01 slipped its clutches when I used fully synthetic oil.
I am surprised to read that the GSX is ok with it.
I will do more research and try some synthetic if I like what I read.
Can't go wrong with Halfords oil, been using it for over 30 years with no problems.
same here used halfords 10w/50 semi synthetic oul for best part of 100,000 miles over 7 gsx1400's change both oil and filter every 4-5000 miles never a problem and gearbox is just nice and smooth .
:cheers:
I've used it for over 70k in the same 14 (which is now pushing 114k) after trying all the ones around & finding it was the only one to give a decent gearbox & no topend rattle. Considering my bike looks clean inside when I've taken the cam cover off & doesn't burn a drop between services (every 4k) I'd say it's pretty good.
Considering I don't like Halfords as a shop so it must be good stuff.
Oh & my local branch does Champion oil filters, so a COF038 every time as well. Oh yes & it's their cheapest 10w40 semi-sync bike oil that goes in mine.
Quote from: Andre on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 09:01 PM
Quote from: Sweaty on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 07:20 PM
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Penrite-Full-Synthetic-Engine-Oil-10W-40-6-Litre/348769
This is the Penrith one I have been using, which is recommended for 4 stroke wet clutch motorcycles.
Don't pay extra for Penrith so called specialty Motorcycle oils which are worse.
Andre, what do the specs on this look like to you ?
@Speedy1959 Here you got a light duty diesel engine oil for your 14.
Leads me to rethink my aversion to diesel engine oils :confused1:
Andre..
For Diesel cars I have always been a big fan of Millers Oils..
Here is the link for both semi synthetic and fully synthetic..
See what you think of the specs..
Semi- synthetic 10W-40:
https://www.millersoils-shop.co.uk/xfe-10w40-engine-oil
Fully Synthetic 5W-50:
https://www.millersoils-shop.co.uk/xf-longlife-5w50-engine-oil
@Speedy1959 The 5W-40 falls out of the recommendation for the 14 by Suzuki. Lowest W recommended is 10! 5W may be suitable if you ride in lower than minus 20 degree celsius.
Millers states that the XFE 10w40 "Will allow fuel economy and engine performance to be maximised". I wouldn't use this one as it indicates that it contains a lot of friction modifiers - not a good thing for wet clutches!
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Tuesday, 19 December 2017, 06:24 PM
My prvious bike the MT-01 slipped its clutches when I used fully synthetic oil.
Did you change from mineral to synthetic? Mineral tends to deposit sludge, however in non-critical areas. When you change to synthetic it will loosen the sludge deposits. When these get into your clutch it will slip. Synthetic oil by itself does not cause clutch slippage unless it has to many anti-friction additives in it.
Hi Andre,
No I havent changed to fully synthetic yet..
I can tell you though (as I mentioned) the Motul 5100 is being drained within the next week!
I am seriously considering the Halfords semi synthetic stuff.
I used to have a BMW GS1200..
The local car accessory shop suggested I try the Comma semi synthetic.. (The bike shop was closed as it was a Sunday)..
I thought "what the hell" and tried it... I could not believe how silky smooth the engine ran on it. It wasnt even bike oil but the BMW engine loved it.
Now I know that is a pretty old design of engine and pretty agricultural.
But yet again it shows how different oils DO have different properties and DO affect how well an engine runs..
Personally I preferred the Silkolene Comp-4 semi synthetic to Halfords, but it was purely my preference rather than necessarily better, both good oils.
@Speedy1959 be careful if you choose to swap to a full synthetic. Whatever specs and the suchlike may say, not so much on here, but on the old org, a few who swapped over subsequent had to replace their clutch plates as changing to synthetic made the clutch slip. Only happened to a few owners, others had no issues at all, but just so you are aware.
most oils are good, some not just as good. i tried the comp 4, as i said 4 litre container a pain. whatever suits you is the go, if it meets specs. gear change better with penrite semi and better again with gulf western. motul worst i tried and also worst chain lube. just my opinion but have no probs with synnex 3000. maybe buying it impossible in nthn hemisphere. i think a couple of aussies switched to gulf, havent heard any reports. was a fair while ago. i like clean oil, so cost of ryco filter $10, oil around 20, every 3 to 4 k change makes me happy.
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 20 December 2017, 04:15 PM
Hi Andre,
No I havent changed to fully synthetic yet..
I can tell you though (as I mentioned) the Motul 5100 is being drained within the next week!
I am seriously considering the Halfords semi synthetic stuff.
I used to have a BMW GS1200..
The local car accessory shop suggested I try the Comma semi synthetic.. (The bike shop was closed as it was a Sunday)..
I thought "what the hell" and tried it... I could not believe how silky smooth the engine ran on it. It wasnt even bike oil but the BMW engine loved it.
Now I know that is a pretty old design of engine and pretty agricultural.
But yet again it shows how different oils DO have different properties and DO affect how well an engine runs..
Don't those BMW GS' have a dry clutch? so unlikely to get the normal bike problems of running the wrong oil.
Yes Hooli they do indeed have a dry clutch.
And they are a nightmare to put a new clutch into..
Its a truly MASSIVE job which BMW will charge up to £1000 to do !!!
Aye I've heard they split the bike in two to get to it. I think Goldwings are the same & maybe Pans.
I've been running that Gulf Western Synnex 3000 for a while now. Got a 5L pack and new filter yesterday. I like it. :onya:
Quote from: Hooli on Wednesday, 20 December 2017, 11:17 PM
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 20 December 2017, 04:15 PM
Hi Andre,
No I havent changed to fully synthetic yet..
I can tell you though (as I mentioned) the Motul 5100 is being drained within the next week!
I am seriously considering the Halfords semi synthetic stuff.
I used to have a BMW GS1200..
The local car accessory shop suggested I try the Comma semi synthetic.. (The bike shop was closed as it was a Sunday)..
I thought "what the hell" and tried it... I could not believe how silky smooth the engine ran on it. It wasnt even bike oil but the BMW engine loved it.
Now I know that is a pretty old design of engine and pretty agricultural.
But yet again it shows how different oils DO have different properties and DO affect how well an engine runs..
Don't those BMW GS' have a dry clutch? so unlikely to get the normal bike problems of running the wrong oil.
Not any more, combined and wet like everyone else (sept some ducati's).