clutch push rod seal (crankcase)

[muzza55]

g'day all, been visiting but haven't posted for a while since my speed/tacho post, that's been sorted with a replacement set.
Anyway the clutch has always been ify and after reading some informative post on here I decided to clean up around the slave cylinder piston and surrounding area, yep full of crud so cleaned up nicely, carefully cleaned up all around the seal in the crankcase that the actuating rod goes through as it too was covered in crud, put all back together, bled the clutch, started her up and low and behold oil leaking from the aforementioned crankcase seal, f^^7 it!
I have bought a new seal, and I have removed the old seal, job and a 1/2 in itself, noting that it is recessed internally.
Is it a case of motor out and split to replace ? or
I have thought about a bit of ozzie bush mechanics and dremelling off the lip and urethaning the old seal in place, good idea or headed for disaster ?
Your thoughts, ideas or tips will be greatly appreciated gents.
muzza.

[muzza55]

doh, sorry just re read my post , should read NEW seal in place.

[KiwiCol]

Hi Muzza, is the seal leaking where the shaft goes in? or the outside edge?  If it's the shaft area. possibly turn the shaft / push rod round & use a less worn bit. another option would be a slightly thicker push rod. 

Yes, this seal has to be installed from the inside, don't thing I'd be going 'bush' on it myself, could leak even worse.  Having said that, you could try a dowty washer on the shaft & epoxy it into place, so the shaft is sealing on that instead of the proper seal.

Un doubtedly the best option would be to install the new one correctly, but cheaper / faster things may also be worth having a look at first. 

Good luck with it .

[grog]

Muzza, a bit confused, quite normal for me. Youve removed old seal from outside? Youve somehow installed new seal?

[Andre]

Grog, the way I understand it is that Muzza got the old seal out and discovered that there is a recess that holds the seal in. That recess makes installing the new seal difficult. If it gets in at all, it might get damaged and the leak is possibly worse than before.

Splitting the crankcase is a big job. For starters you have to take out the engine. A bunch of new gaskets and seals have to be fitted ($$$) and who knows what goes wrong otherwise. BUT splitting the case is the proper way.

Muzza, I suggest you try getting the seal in without dremeling the recess (lip - or do you mean something else by that) out first. Take a 3-pronged (or 2-pronged) puller and see if you can attach the prongs somehow (there are several bolt- threads in the area). Put a thick washer (large enough to fully cover the seal) between puller tip and seal. Grease the new seal and press the seal in.

If the puller method doesn't work and you "need" to do the dremel action, then I would remove only as much to allow driving the seal in with a socket.

[Dusty ST]

Out of interest... if you do dremel and install from the outside what stops the seal going too far and dropping into the gearbox?

[SheepDog]

@muzza55 I feel your pain mate.

Hi Muzza, is the seal leaking where the shaft goes in? or the outside edge?  If it's the shaft area. possibly turn the shaft / push rod round & use a less worn bit. another option would be a slightly thicker push rod. 

I had my clutch mechanism off while working on the chain and sprockets. Decided to start her up to listen and watch how it was all going. Well, the bike starting doing a golden shower straight out of the clutch seal, literally. Scared the crap out of me. Like KiwiCol suggested, I gently cleaned the clutch rode and reassembled the mechanism and topped up the oil. All good.

Anyway..... deep breath mate and good luck.

[muzza55]

Thanks for your replies and thoughts fellas, sorry it's gunna be a long post but trying to give you all details.
Ok, from the start, as explained in the original post the push rod seal(in crankcase) decided to leak after a careful clean up, not a lot but leak it did, purchased a new seal, a two week wait, from Suzuki here in OZ, when it arrived I sizes it up against the still installed old seal, bummer it has a bigger diameter than the old, that's when I realized that the original is internally installed, logged onto here and read a few posts and realized it's a full pull down to fit an $11 rubber bit. I know I should have taken a photo or 2 of the new seal, you probably know what the outside looks like, the internal side is shaped like a plate with a 3mm lip around the edge and a metal washer adhered to the inside with a central nipple and small spring clamp around the hole for the push rod to pass through.
Not wanting to spend a heap of hard earned on a project 1400 I thought long and hard about a way around the situation, as the seal doesn't have oil pressure as such pushing it from the inside I decided to use a Dremel to remove the outer containing lip on the crankcase and insert the new seal from the outside and seal off with urethane. I have let it sit and cure for 24hrs as of later this arvo and will report back on the findings, leak or no leak, fingers crossed.
Cheers muzza.
p.s:- I'll try and attach a few photos of the job when I find the results later today.

[muzza55]

Muzza, a bit confused, quite normal for me. Youve removed old seal from outside? Youve somehow installed new seal?

correct grog took a bit off work but removed old seal from outside with no damage caused to the crankcase or seal seat, new seal put in from outside as explained in another post, cheers muzza

[muzza55]

Out of interest... if you do dremel and install from the outside what stops the seal going too far and dropping into the gearbox?

hey Dusty, inside off the seal recess is another large washer with a hole for the rod to pass through that washer is securely fixed and cannot move so no drama about pushing in to far, with that said when I put some photos up later you can actually see pretty clearly what is behind said rod seal. cheers muzza.

[muzza55]

Grog, the way I understand it is that Muzza got the old seal out and discovered that there is a recess that holds the seal in. That recess makes installing the new seal difficult. If it gets in at all, it might get damaged and the leak is possibly worse than before.

Splitting the crankcase is a big job. For starters you have to take out the engine. A bunch of new gaskets and seals have to be fitted ($$$) and who knows what goes wrong otherwise. BUT splitting the case is the proper way.

Muzza, I suggest you try getting the seal in without dremeling the recess (lip - or do you mean something else by that) out first. Take a 3-pronged (or 2-pronged) puller and see if you can attach the prongs somehow (there are several bolt- threads in the area). Put a thick washer (large enough to fully cover the seal) between puller tip and seal. Grease the new seal and press the seal in.

If the puller method doesn't work and you "need" to do the dremel action, then I would remove only as much to allow driving the seal in with a socket.

hey Andre, when you actually see the replacement seal and the recess it goes into there is no way in this world it can be inserted from the outside with out some form of crankcase modification, the rubber lips that wrap around the steel washer on the inside of the seal are very soft and fragile and would be damaged beyond use by trying to compress.
Cheers muzza.

[Andre]

Thanks for the info. I hope this will work. Let us know.

[grog]

Youre a genius if it works Muzza. Cant see why not. Always worried me a bit that seal. i keep pushrod clean n smooth, wash out then blow out seal, grease n oil mix on rod, spin it round lots. Just my way. Maybe a bit of crap gets in motor but i guess oil change fixes that.

[muzza55]

Youre a genius if it works Muzza. Cant see why not. Always worried me a bit that seal. i keep pushrod clean n smooth, wash out then blow out seal, grease n oil mix on rod, spin it round lots. Just my way. Maybe a bit of crap gets in motor but i guess oil change fixes that.

wouldn't go that far fella  genius, nah, I grew up with no money and broken vehicles, thought to meself, "well if it's fooked I can't fook it any more" so I pulled things apart and fixed with whatever means possible, always thinking outside the box so to speak.
Cheers muzz.

[muzza55]

Thanks for the info. I hope this will work. Let us know.

Well arrived home yesdy arvo, the urethane had set nicely so I applied a coat of non hardening gasket stuff around the circumference of the seal to make sure it wouldn't leak(fingers crossed) cracked a beer or 2 and reassembled the clutch slave, bled again and put the sprocket cover on, said 3 Hail Marries and hit the start button, vroom away she went idling nicely, was scared to look but after 5 minutes of idle and small revs, NO OIL LEAKING wooohooo :boogie:OK so all good, time for a test ride, went for a 10k run got home, no leaky rode 10k to work today, all good.
Looks like I may have worked out a bypass of stipping down to replace the seal, time will tell I 'spose.
Thinking about what I have done and hopefully never again, I would more than likely put the new seal in backwards because as stated earlier the edge lip is very soft and I did tear it a little putting it into the recess, only small amount but enough to cause me to swear. The aperture for the seal is quite deep (photos posted at end of this post) and with it driven it reverse the seal would stay intact and not tear guaranteeing a good fit and seal, if done that way a large washer with a small enough hole for the push rod to run through could be urethaned to the outside rim and would stop a lot of the chain/road grime from affecting the seals efficiency.
I am happy that it seems to be working and if durable it has saved a shite load of $ an may be of help for anyone else that faces this dilemma. Photos not in order cause I'm not that much of a techy.
#1 photo after Dremel and clean.
#2 is start of Dremel.
#3 new seal fitted and urethaned.
#4 after 24 hours curing and a coat of gasket stuff for good measure.
cheers peeps, muzza