Sad day.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51303905
From
QuoteMr Garner said last May that the firm was performing strongly and planned to open a new factory.
to not being able to pay a tax bill of 300k a few months later, raises suspicion that customers were cheated when buying a new Norton after that statement in May.
Yep super dodgy. Are they a publicly listed company? (or fully owned by a publicly listed company) if so that could lead to criminal charges for attempting to inflate / manipulate share price.
But frankly given some of the engine problems (design issues) they were having, and their absolute disinterest in customers/dealers (here in Australia at least) once they got their money - I'm surprised it's taken this long.
Shouldve happened 50 yrs ago. That would mean i never bought 1973 Commando, by far worst bike ive ever owned.
Such a massive shame that it looks like the iconic British brand is going to the wall.
However what did they expect? They seemed to market the brand at the more expensive end of the market where people would buy it because it was a "Norton". They should of had a good look at Triumph. They make a lot more variety of bikes to suit different riders at a much more realistic price. Norton never was the Rolls Royce of motorcycles, Rolls Royce very rarely break down and have the reliability problems that Norton have.
The British mentality of having to make at least 15% or 20% profit or not bother is holding us back as well. John Bloor did not break even in the first 15-20 years of production because he wanted to establish triumph as a going concern first. The Chinese have the right idea, if I make a profit that's good enough to start with, (even 1% puts me up on the deal) build up the firms reputation then start to charge higher prices, it's how the japs dominated the market in 70's Britain. Why don't we learn :confused1:
They were good looking bikes but way tooooooo expensive IMO :)
Quote from: mjgt on Thursday, 30 January 2020, 08:04 PM
The British mentality of having to make at least 15% or 20% profit or not bother is holding us back as well. John Bloor did not break even in the first 15-20 years of production because he wanted to establish triumph as a going concern first. The Chinese have the right idea, if I make a profit that's good enough to start with, (even 1% puts me up on the deal) build up the firms reputation then start to charge higher prices, it's how the japs dominated the market in 70's Britain. Why don't we learn :confused1:
In the car market as an example - the Japs, then Koreans, now Chinese are doing exactly that.
Quote from: Notty on Friday, 31 January 2020, 03:06 AM
They were good looking bikes but way tooooooo expensive IMO :)
Yeah when Rockers was the dealer here in Brissie there was a bloke in Cairns (up that way somewhere anyway) got one that was super special - carbon fibre bodywork (what little bodywork there was), custom pipes and various other upgrades. The Union Jack was ghost painted into the carbon fibre tailpiece etc. And it sounded GLORIOUS. But he paid upwards of $40K for it... and it still suffered the same issues as the 'normal' ones.
I test rode one of the cafe racers, and the riding position was torturous I just couldn't own one BUT it was a sweet handling and nice engine characteristics.
I think the dealer probably ultimately made a loss on their 'dealership' given the warranty issues they were responsible for and lack of adequate support from Norton in the UK
One of mates put deposit down on one, kept on getting fobbed off excuse after excuse, he was one of the lucky ones as he got his deposit back, went & bought a Ducati, sweet looking bike but just not the riding position for me.
Sounds like a lot of behind the scenes financial jiggery pokkery sinking a potentially great business. Not often a good sign when people from an outside business sphere come in with big plans...
John Bloor the builder and Triumph being the honorable exception.
Sounds to me like Mr Garner is a financial disaster and shouldn`t be let anywhere near company ownership - even his hotels are going down the pan.
Owe tax, pay tax. Fact. Everyone else has to! Take on a failing `asset` and sink it, suffer the consequences. Tough. The Norton name has been under a cloud for years and potential customers have gone elsewhere with their hard earned cash. Can`t blame them really. Its a terrible time for the workforce and i sympathise with them all.
Looking forward, i`m really hoping that Mr Garner buys out all the coffee shops and charity shops in our high street..... :grin:
Report on this evening's ITN. Don't know if the videos are available outside the UK
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-02-12/norton-motorcycles-calls-for-investigation-government-funding-business-administration-stuart-garner/
Back in the 70s I had 3 Nortons, they are the reason I became a motor cycle mechanic, when we could afford it, we all had Nortons, but when we could afford it, ha, 3 year personal loans etc, we ALL got Honda Fours, then the Z1 came out but too many blokes were crashing them and they got a bad rep handling wise, I had one back then but sold it off after I restored it.
Up until Norton returned some years ago I just wrote Norton off as a bad memory but nostalgia will have it's way. The price of the new Nortons was a joke and so I just put Nortons back in the closet of my mind.
Still, sometimes the hankering for one of the old ones comes back to haunt me. Why the hell are the old ones asking $20 grand AUD. Nostalgia is one thing but 20 grand :facepalm: I won't be going back there. Sad to hear they have gone belly up though, if the prices of them had been more like Triumph I'm sure they would have done better.
And why would you pay 20k for an old one when you can pay 25+k for one of these.
I was having a chat with a motorcycle dealer (and proper enthusiast) the other day, and in passing, the price of `classics` came up. One of my comments was along the lines of `......yea, and they`re now selling for.....`, his retort was `.....but are they really selling for those prices.....?`
Well, I must say, its all got a bit mad with classic bike prices during recent years - in the sense that high pricing usually goes hand-in-hand with rarity. This certainly doesn`t apply to classic bikes nowadays. So, is he right, or are there really people out there paying ridiculous money for machines which, when new, were a fraction of todays asking price?
I vividly recall countless visits to `Ken Kays Kawasaki` in Luton during 1975, drooling over the new Triples on sale. In the showroom were always numerous - S3`s £545; H1s £725 and H2`s £849. The Z1`s were of less interest to me at the time but i`m pretty sure thay were priced at just under £1000.
You can put your own current prices by them all for original minters, and weep, or cry with joy if you own a few!
The amazing thing is, certainly in the case of Kawasaki Triples (I make no apologies for them being a lifelong passion of mine), there are more registered in the UK right now than there were in 1975 - fact! I wouldn`t be suprised if this wasn`t the case with other marques too. So todays asking prices certainly aren`t being driven by rarity!!
What a crazy world we live in when nostalgia rules.
Must go, gotto get back on that auction site...... :facepalm:
As a VJMC member and I would say proper enthusiast I have seen them go for those prices.
Each to their own, personally what I have is mine because I like it, I will probably never see any gain from them as I don't sell what I collect as a general rule, but I don't spend silly money to start with.
£545 in 1975 is worth £4397.87 today, is that what an S3 is worth?
£725 in 1975 is worth £5850.37 today, is that what an H1 is worth?
£849 in 1975 is worth £6850.99 today, is that what an H2 is worth?
These figures are based just on inflation over the last 45 years so if these prices are correct are they worth any more or less than they were new?
I know that in 1980 a new learner legal Honda CB 250n cost £865 (£6980.1) and a learner legal naked Honda now costs £3989 and performance is probably that much different :whistling:
Some investments are better than others.
The only 1400 that will be worth big money are the stock one's :whistling:
Initially, yes. When they`re gone, the stock `cosmetically challenged` ones will be next......so keep hold of all your stock replaced parts everyone, Bazookas `n all. They`ll be worth really good money :onya:.
I own a bike to enjoy and ride, not as an investment so... stock bazookas? :upu:
1974, my Norton was not running as was the normal. I went pillion on mates GT750 Ducati. He screamed Duck, i didnt. Was actually Seagull not Duck.😂 Got smacked straight in the face. Mate riding sent me framed drawing years later.
Quote from: VladTepes on Monday, 17 February 2020, 05:49 PM
I own a bike to enjoy and ride, not as an investment so... stock bazookas? :upu:
I doubt you do as much riding as me.
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Monday, 17 February 2020, 07:23 PM
I doubt you do as much riding as me.
The amount of riding is not the point. :)
Just found this, what a tosser.
https://www.superbike.co.uk/article/norton-was-it-a-fraud-from-the-start
Wow...
What a story, what a wanker. Just so sad.
PETITION STARTED FOR GOVERNMENT TO QUESTION GARNER ON NORTON COLLAPSE
https://www.change.org/p/government-fraud-charges?recruiter=1044171565&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_petition&recruited_by_id=c7f319f0-5431-11ea-8a84-997bc32f44ee
signed
Signed :onya: